Episode 220
THE ART OF PURPOSE - Storming the Digital Gates: Empowering Others through Authenticity
Dino, aka The Art of Purpose, a former public school teacher and now a successful entrepreneur, shares his transformative journey back to Christianity. He discusses his experience of leaving the public school system during the COVID-19 pandemic and how it led him to explore his faith more deeply.
Dino emphasizes the importance of community and faith in overcoming a transactional mindset that dominates modern culture. He encourages listeners to engage authentically and meaningfully, advocating for a return to church and spiritual practices as a remedy for societal ills.
The conversation highlights the necessity of fostering genuine connections and understanding within the Christian community while navigating contemporary challenges.
Takeaways:
- Dino emphasizes the importance of authentic connections over transactional relationships, particularly in the realm of social media, where genuine engagement can lead to meaningful growth.
- He shares his own transformative journey back to Christianity, highlighting the impact of faith on personal and professional life.
- The discussion touches on the idea that social media can be used as a tool for positive influence, encouraging people to attend church and grow in their faith.
- Dino advocates for teaching others rather than merely promoting oneself, likening it to the biblical principle of teaching others to fish rather than just providing fish.
- The podcast highlights the dangers of a transactional mindset, particularly in how it affects relationships and societal interactions, urging listeners to pursue covenantal relationships instead.
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Transcript
Foreign.
Speaker B:Hello, my name is Will Spencer and welcome to the Will Spencer Podcast.
Speaker B:This is a weekly show featuring in depth conversations with authors, leaders and influencers who help us understand our changing world.
Speaker B:New episodes release every Friday this week.
Speaker B:I'm excited to share the audio from my live stream with my good friend Dino from the Art of Purpose.
Speaker B:Dino first appeared on the podcast a couple years ago for a three hour conversation.
Speaker B:I don't think he saw that marathon coming, but that conversation laid the groundwork for the amazing friendship we've built since last October, while passing through Texas, where he lives, I stayed with his family.
Speaker B:We went to dinner, smoked cigars, and talked late into the night as he shared his moving testimony of returning to Christ and the subsequent transformation in his family's life.
Speaker B:Though we don't get into that story in this episode, it's pretty incredible.
Speaker B:While Dino is Roman Catholic, which you'll notice in this conversation and his content, I can tell you his faith is sincere.
Speaker B:In this era where division tears at the body of Christ, I believe in keeping lines of communication open, especially when conversation can reveal who we are, our experiences, and what they mean to us.
Speaker B:Dino is also a powerful, positive force on X.
Speaker B:He doesn't just build his own profile, he trains and equips men and women to build their own businesses and brands to make an impact.
Speaker B:He models one of prosperity's finest virtues, not merely fishing, but teaching others to fish.
Speaker B:In fact, he taught me much of what I know about X today.
Speaker B:I can credit his guidance with helping me reach almost 31,000 followers, which helped which is wild.
Speaker B:God is truly great and gracious.
Speaker B:Yes, X has lately become a dumpster fire of juvenile hatred and federal psyop dark money madness.
Speaker B:But don't let that keep you away completely.
Speaker B:You can absolutely avoid political discussions and build a brand and network that glorifies God while helping you achieve goals for your family and future.
Speaker B:Despite its political challenges, X remains the most powerful social media network on earth.
Speaker B:So if you want to learn it and make a positive impact for your household, family and God, I recommend everything my friend Dino offers.
Speaker B:Find his programs, including his Masterclass, community and 30 day create, publish profit Training cohort linked in the show notes to learn more.
Speaker B:Maybe together we can overcome the transactional mindset that dominates the world and storm the gates of political dialogue for the glory of God.
Speaker B:Now, friends, we're not just recording conversations on the Will Spencer Podcast, we're recording.
Speaker B:We're part of a restoration project for Christian civilization in the west.
Speaker B:And I need you in this fight with me.
Speaker B:So when you visit Spotify or Apple Podcasts, take a moment to write how these conversations impacted you.
Speaker B:Your words might be exactly what someone needs to hear to give this show their first listen.
Speaker B:Those conversations that shifted your thinking, share those.
Speaker B:We're in a war for the soul of our culture, and these conversations are ammunition for the right side.
Speaker B:For those ready to go Deeper, please visit willspenzerpod.substack.com and become a paid subscriber for ad, free interviews and content.
Speaker B:Every contribution you make keeps this independent platform running.
Speaker B:And please welcome this week's guests on the podcast from the Masterclass community and Create, Publish, profit.
Speaker B:My friend Dino from the Art of Purpose.
Speaker B:Dino, my man, good to see you again.
Speaker B:Welcome to the Will Spencer Podcast Live.
Speaker A:Thank you for having me, buddy.
Speaker A:Good to see you, buddy.
Speaker B:I remember when you and I talked on the podcast the first time.
Speaker B:I think it was like two years ago.
Speaker B:I think we went for like three hours.
Speaker B:That was a pretty.
Speaker B:That was a pretty epic.
Speaker A:That was wild.
Speaker A:That was absolutely wild.
Speaker A:I'm fine for anything today, man.
Speaker A:I'm up for anything.
Speaker A:Up for any conversation.
Speaker A:Love talking with you.
Speaker A:Love chatting with you, brother.
Speaker B:Fantastic.
Speaker B:Fantastic.
Speaker B:Well, it's been a wild couple years for you.
Speaker B:I've been talking about.
Speaker B:This is season three of aop.
Speaker B:Not only have you.
Speaker B:Not only have you done a face reveal, because I think you were still anonymous at the time, but your content has shifted quite a bit over the past maybe year, year and a half or so to be much more Christian focused, which I think is fantastic.
Speaker B:And so I'm looking forward to talking about that with you and Donald Trump and homeschooling and all the other big stuff going on right now.
Speaker A:Absolutely.
Speaker A:Thank you, brother, for having me on today, man.
Speaker B:So let's start.
Speaker B:Let's.
Speaker B:Let's start with season three of aop.
Speaker B:Well, actually, why don't you run through the evolution of what you've done as Art of Purpose, like where you started, where you've been, and kind of how you got to where you are today.
Speaker A:So, yeah, we'll recap season one, right?
Speaker A:Like starting season.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:So I was formerly a public school teacher.
Speaker A:Taught for roughly 20 years.
Speaker A:I have a master's degree in education, did all of those things, taught public school, was completely chained to my job for a long time.
Speaker A:And then during COVID hit, Right.
Speaker A:I use that as an opportunity because my classroom got shut down.
Speaker A:I used to teach band.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:And so we couldn't teach during COVID We were sent home.
Speaker A:And so I was watching the News.
Speaker A:It was really depressing.
Speaker A:My son was just born at the time, and I was like, let's do something positive.
Speaker A:Let's start some account.
Speaker A:I had recently became a millionaire at around that time period.
Speaker A:So I decided to start an account that was, from my perspective, about, like, reflections, becoming a millionaire, some financial stuff as well, and just giving some value to the world and trying to give some purpose into the world during a time that was extremely negative.
Speaker A: t, it says, started in May of: Speaker A:We grew rapidly from there, and we started to build courses and communities that were built upon growing online, creating content online, and how specifically to grow on X.
Speaker A:And these became wildly popular.
Speaker A:We sold over 2,000 copies of our course, create 24.
Speaker A:7, and it sold so much that people demanded that I started a community around this, which is called masterclass, masterclass247.com and.
Speaker A:And so what we did there was we then decided to start a community.
Speaker A:It blew up.
Speaker A:We've had a lot of people join.
Speaker A:We've had a lot of people join us inside the community.
Speaker A:And it is a community that's built around growing online, and we have around 500 members right now.
Speaker A:And then we've started cohorts along the way to build all of this.
Speaker A:And it's become a business that I've sold roughly close to around $2 million worth since I've started.
Speaker A:And it's become something that has changed my life forever.
Speaker A:So that's what I do.
Speaker A:That was kind of like season two, right?
Speaker A:Season one was teaching season two, but so season three, right, was when I decided to start tweeting more about Christianity.
Speaker A:So there was a long process back for me to go to the faith, too.
Speaker A:I think it's almost like the same kind of alliance of lines as you, right?
Speaker A:Like, you were really into, like, renaissance and stuff like that.
Speaker A:We were always on the podcast Renaissance of Men.
Speaker A:All right, now it's the Will Spencer podcast, right?
Speaker A:It's different now.
Speaker A:And so last year.
Speaker A:So one of the tenets of our core philosophies in Create 24.
Speaker A:7 and in Masterclass is that your content is your life, right?
Speaker A:And that you tell your story, you tell what's going on.
Speaker A:You're not.
Speaker A:You're not building someone else's brand or someone else's story.
Speaker A:You're not a fanboy, and, you know, you're doing your thing and putting your ideas out into the world.
Speaker A:And so while I was going this retransformation, because I was raised Catholic for a long Time and then came back into the faith, oh, about 14 months ago.
Speaker A:And this transformation back into it also mirrored into my content.
Speaker A:So that's when I shifted to more Christianity.
Speaker A:And I was just sharing what I was seeing.
Speaker A:Will.
Speaker A:I lost a lot of followers for this, but I was only sharing what I was seeing, which is a real transformation of individuals going back into the church.
Speaker A:My first experience back to the church was this.
Speaker A:I could not believe what I was saying.
Speaker A:I grew up on the East Coast, Catholic, and, you know, when we went to church back in the late 90s, we would just see, you know, maybe a third of the church full, a dwindling population, people not really taking things in the faith seriously.
Speaker A: back to church in December of: Speaker A:I showed up to church on the first day, right?
Speaker A:We showed up maybe 15 minutes before mass started.
Speaker A:They came to us, and we're like, hey, you need to go into the overflow room.
Speaker A:And I'm like, oh, my gosh.
Speaker A:I get my wife.
Speaker A:I was like, you know, I convinced my wife to go back to church with me, right?
Speaker A:And she had never been to Mass before or anything like that.
Speaker A:And I had my son with me.
Speaker A:And we show up on the first day, the church is so full that they're just like, you need to go to another room.
Speaker A:And I'm like, okay.
Speaker A:So we go down to the folding chairs, watching mass on a tv, and I was, like, kind of nervous because I was like, hey, I wanted this to be a really good experience, right?
Speaker A:And here we are sitting, watching Mass on folded chairs and a tv, and you could barely hear it.
Speaker A:But it was one of the most moving experiences that I've ever seen, because what I saw then, it was like people kneeling on the concrete floor, people professing their faith, people really into it, people participating.
Speaker A:And it blew me away that in such a humble location, people could experience such a deep connection with God.
Speaker A:And so I was like, hey, we're gonna start going.
Speaker A:So, you know, my wife and I, we explored some churches and stuff like that.
Speaker A:We ultimately decided to start attending a local Catholic church in our area.
Speaker A:I had been reading the Bible for about a year or two before that.
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker A:So I just want to be upfront with people.
Speaker A:I had been reading the Bible for a year or two before that, just reading it and thinking, like, well, like, how am I gonna go in?
Speaker A:Like, should I go back to church?
Speaker A:Should I start, know, being a regular at Mass?
Speaker A:And should I still?
Speaker A:You know, this was kind of Something that was like, weighing on me for a while until I ultimately decided to do it.
Speaker A:And it was one of the best decisions that I ever made in life.
Speaker A:When we started tweeting about it to our timeline, there were a lot of people that were upset because this was a change in our content.
Speaker A:And I have something.
Speaker A:If you guys don't know me, I have something like 340something thousand followers on X.
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker A:We do.
Speaker A:In the past month, we have done 1 million impressions on X, all organically.
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker A:And we have one of the more popular accounts on the platform.
Speaker A:And when I started to tweet about this, it was a, A visceral reaction, like, I didn't follow you for this.
Speaker A:I don't follow you for this.
Speaker A:Start talking about money, start talking about growth, start talking about, you know, productivity and all of the things you used to talk about.
Speaker A:And I had done this.
Speaker A:And not only that, I continued to double and triple down into it because I could see that it was a poignant point.
Speaker A:But like, so for this, Will, I think this is really interesting.
Speaker A:I've been doing this regularly for so long.
Speaker A:I got a message from one of my followers yesterday.
Speaker A:Are you ready?
Speaker A:I'm going to read it out loud for you.
Speaker A:Yo, Dino, let's go.
Speaker A:I just met with the deacon at the Catholic church here in Frisco, Texas.
Speaker A:I don't think I've ever shared this with you, but I went to Catholic high school back on my home island, parish of St.
Speaker A:John.
Speaker A:Been out of the practice since I moved to the area, but I pulled the trigger here.
Speaker A:I would be lying to say that a part of the influence didn't come from you and your post.
Speaker B:Haha.
Speaker A:I hope all is well for me, brother.
Speaker A:And he's asking me to actually be a sponsor for him as he gets fully confirmed into the Catholic Church.
Speaker A:So I get a lot of dms from guys saying, I love what you're doing.
Speaker A:So what was really interesting, I was getting a lot of comments from the peanut gallery saying, hey, don't post about this, Stop doing this.
Speaker A:But at the same time, I was getting DMs from people, okay, saying that, hey, you know what?
Speaker A:I'm considering going back to the church because of this, because you're doing it.
Speaker A:And so you have to understand something.
Speaker A:Why is it important?
Speaker A:I always think it's funny that people like Pearl can't stand people like me, okay?
Speaker A:Because what they do is they actually get people inside and going back and practicing in their churches.
Speaker A:And so when you see her call out and Say, well, why are these influencers call, you know, telling people is because people follow influencers, guys, whether you think you like it or not.
Speaker A:People see what they see on their tablets and on their phones and on their computer screens and they are more likely to mimic that behavior.
Speaker A:This is part of like mimetic desire.
Speaker A:So one of the things that we decided to do was tap into that and instead use it as a force of good.
Speaker A:Instead of trying to get people to just like buy consumeristic stuff in a materialistic mindset and, and coins and whatever these fake phony things are.
Speaker A:And so what we decided to do instead was get people to do the most real thing that they could ever do in their lives, which is start reading the Bible again and start attending church.
Speaker A:And immediately.
Speaker A:And by the way, this was great, Will, because I knew that I use this as a strategy as well.
Speaker A:I wouldn't be lying if I say, because what happened was, is I started to repel all of the right kinds of people.
Speaker A:Okay, so there's only two people that would have a bat.
Speaker A:So there's two people who aren't Christian that would have.
Speaker A:There's two ways that they could digest this.
Speaker A:One, they could be like, okay, he's just doing his thing.
Speaker A:You know, I like the guy.
Speaker A:I'm going to just, you know, he talks about other stuff too, so I enjoy his content.
Speaker A:We're not, we'll just ignore those posts or those that really get upset by it and then really, really, really go after you by it and then they leave.
Speaker A:I lost community members because of this.
Speaker A:I lost email subscribers.
Speaker A:I lost followers.
Speaker A:Last year was the slowest my page ever grew because of this.
Speaker A:I only gained 25,000 followers.
Speaker A:I know that sounds like a first world problem, but I didn't really care because I knew what was happening is a lot were coming in.
Speaker A:I could see by my numbers, a lot were coming in, but a lot were leaving.
Speaker A:And now our page has a lot of momentum.
Speaker A:Now we're starting.
Speaker A:That's why I just said 100 million impressions in the past month and the growth is happening again because we had to shuffle all the wrong kinds of people out.
Speaker A:I can say this as a Catholic and a Christian.
Speaker A:Here's the deal, guys.
Speaker A:A lot of the people who look down on Christians aren't worth doing business with.
Speaker A:They're not.
Speaker A:They're not worth.
Speaker A:They're not, they're not worth doing business with.
Speaker A:Especially the now.
Speaker A:The ones that are, you know, are open minded and are like, hey, but the ones who are actually going to unfollow you or be upset by your profession of faith.
Speaker A:You should just, by you talking, you're doing you and them a favor because what you're doing is you're repelling them.
Speaker A:And they're going to stay away from you.
Speaker A:They're going to stay away from your page, and you're going to be, you're going to, you're going to repel all the right kinds of dark people that you don't want to be interacting with your content.
Speaker A:So I strongly recommend doing this even if you're just like a regular content creator, because all of the right kinds of people, they're going to go, bye, bye, okay?
Speaker A:And it's going to help you in the long run.
Speaker B:Absolutely agree.
Speaker B:Absolutely agree.
Speaker A:Season three, Season three of aop.
Speaker B:You know, I have a, I have a similar story.
Speaker B:You having come from the manosphere and the red pill world.
Speaker B:And so to discover the reaction that those guys had to actual, actual Christianity, it's like, oh, wow.
Speaker B: the course of, I think it was: Speaker B:And to look back on that now and be like, wow, I am so glad.
Speaker B:I am so glad they're gone.
Speaker B:And you don't know that at the time.
Speaker B:It's sort of like a transition that you have to go through where people fall away and it's like, what's happening, everybody?
Speaker B:And then you get to the other side of the far shore, and it's like, I am so glad that all those people have left because the connection that you form with the people who stick around is so much, is so much stronger.
Speaker B:It's a culling that needs to go on to build, you know, to build a more solid foundation, right?
Speaker A:If people are genuinely upset that I'm tweeting about going to church on Sunday and encouraging other people, they just need to leave.
Speaker A:They just need to leave.
Speaker A:That's, that's, that's really, that's basically it.
Speaker A:They can just go and they can follow other people and, you know, who are going to.
Speaker A:The type of content that you create online is going to track the audience that you deserve.
Speaker A:That's something that I've learned on the long run.
Speaker A:Right?
Speaker A:And, you know, this is one of the reasons why I tell other Christians to not, like, attack each other, because how much better are you than these other guys that just sit around all day long attacking other people and stuff like that?
Speaker A:But the type of content, like, if you continually move into hatred, right, and fear you're going to attract an audience that's addicted to those kinds of things.
Speaker A:And so if you're creating content that's inspiring hope and getting people excited about life and encouraging them to do the right kinds of things, going to attract good people, you're going to attract honest people, you're going to attract people that are going to genuinely be interested in who and what you do.
Speaker A:And over time, this is one of the best things that you can do for your look at Chick Fil A.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:Like Chick Fil?
Speaker A:A isn't someone that is like ashamed to be who they are and what they do and they have.
Speaker A:And, and now people know that.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:And they feel like they have a connection to that.
Speaker A:And it's one of the best give.
Speaker A:They give all of their employees off on Sunday.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:Like how, how impressive is that?
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:And so I go there more often because that's a business that instills Christian values and I would rather be a part of that.
Speaker A:And I think more businesses need to do this regardless of who and what other people are going to think.
Speaker A:Again, you're going to ultimately find your tribe and all the right kinds of people.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:It's funny you mention Chick Fil A because that, that single policy has such far reaching effects for them.
Speaker B:So for example, they can't open a store in Manhattan, I heard, because they can't bring in enough money because they're closed that seventh day of the week.
Speaker B:So naturally they're going to be selecting out of particular, of particular areas as a result of that business decision.
Speaker B:But it's not just a business decision, it's a moral decision.
Speaker B:And I think people are hesitant to make decisions like that because they feel like, oh, it's going to cost me too much in my bottom line.
Speaker B:But they don't want to ask questions about soul.
Speaker B:They don't want to ask questions about the kind of people that they want to have around.
Speaker B:They don't want to ask those really uncomfortable, like what am I willing to actually give up for my faith or the things that I believe.
Speaker B:That's not a, that's not a popular idea in America, particularly not on social media.
Speaker A:Go ahead.
Speaker A:Moral decisions are good business decisions.
Speaker B:Okay, say more about, say more about that.
Speaker A:So, so what I think one of the common misconceptions is, is that you have to be like this ruthless tyrant to make it out.
Speaker A:Like, you know, like this defecation of Alex from Rosie.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:Who is always telling people that like you need to sacrifice it all, man, to make it right.
Speaker A:It's yes, you can have rich, truly rich people, spiritually and financially understand that.
Speaker A:You can.
Speaker A:You can have it all, right?
Speaker A:You can have that family that you want.
Speaker A:You can have that faith in God.
Speaker A:You can have the positions and things that you want.
Speaker A:If you work at it, of course, right?
Speaker A:Like, it's not going to get handed to you on the table, but you don't need to sacrifice every little moral and value that you have.
Speaker A:And.
Speaker A:And I think that a lot.
Speaker A:I think what society does is they like to put these people on a pedestal, right?
Speaker A:Like these herbosis in the world, like these Tates in the world and all of these guys so that people can see them.
Speaker A:And, like, what they're really doing to you is they're making you focus on everything about money, right?
Speaker A:So I have a funny story.
Speaker A:I'm a multimillionaire right now, okay?
Speaker A:I'm not here to brag.
Speaker A:I'm just here to tell you as a fact from, like, where I am in life, okay?
Speaker A:The.
Speaker A:The.
Speaker A:One of the lowest points in my life.
Speaker A:Not lowest points in my life, I want to phrase this properly, one of the most biggest down moments in my life was when.
Speaker A:The day I actually became a millionaire, okay?
Speaker A:And so, which ultimately inspired me to start my account on X, because this happened, like during the COVID era and such like that.
Speaker A: ot of investing, like back in: Speaker A:And what we did was, you know, I used to sit on my computer being like, oh, you know how these guys, like, take screenshots of their net worth and stuff like that on X.
Speaker A:I would have been that guy if I.
Speaker A:I had an account at that time.
Speaker A:You know, constantly looking at the digits, making it go numbered, the gamification of money, and like, higher and higher and higher and higher.
Speaker A:And I was like, one day we're gonna do this, and it's gonna be the greatest feeling in the world.
Speaker A:And the day it happened, will, I was like, I thought like, balloons were gonna fly from the sky and, like, fall down and a big parade was gonna be.
Speaker A:Nothing happened.
Speaker A:Nothing happened.
Speaker A:In fact, I was like, looking at the world and being like, what's happening to the world?
Speaker A:What's going on?
Speaker A:And maybe instead of thinking, like, what?
Speaker A:Where's my balloon party?
Speaker A:It's like thinking like, maybe we can use this as a way to start a business and put us in a position to be able to start doing the things.
Speaker A:Look at it more of like a beginning as an end, right?
Speaker A:And so people think about this money perspective, it's just like this is the end all and be all and once I get here.
Speaker A:No, what you should be doing is you should be using your positions to make the world a better place for not just you, but for your children as well.
Speaker A:That's what I mean.
Speaker A:Yeah, go ahead.
Speaker B:Oh, no, I, I absolutely agree, but there's a.
Speaker B:I think this is where scarcity mindset comes in.
Speaker B:This is where laziness comes in.
Speaker B:Like real and moral cowardice.
Speaker B:That's, that's the thing that I've been seeing a lot of is, you know, people are so concerned in the way that society is set up today.
Speaker B:Like, well, I got to get mine and I got to hold on to mine and I don't want to do anything to risk that.
Speaker B:And the moral cowardice kicks in at that moment.
Speaker B:Well, if I speak out, if I speak about something that'll be unpopular or controversial, that's going to cost me some of this.
Speaker B:And they don't have the ability to make the trade off between something material for something richly spiritual.
Speaker B:And that's where the moral cowardice I see so many people having and really hiding behind.
Speaker A:Right?
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:I think it's not just a moral cowardice, but I think society in a way has decided to cleverly funnel people into believing that they need to act like this to be successful.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:It's like, hey, I need to act a certain way so that I can keep my job.
Speaker A:And this is one of the reasons why, like you know, telling kids they have to go to college.
Speaker A:I taught public school for 20 years, I already know the funnel, okay?
Speaker A:They tell every single person that they need to go to college.
Speaker A:And if you don't go to college, you're a bad person or a stupid person.
Speaker A:And what this happens is now these colleges are over full and they could charge whatever they want and now they have to give you loans and now you graduate, you have a student loan debt, and then you get a car and then you get addicted to commercialism and then you have to get a mortgage and a house and do all of these things.
Speaker A:But what, none of this has to do with any of your bit of relationship with God, right?
Speaker A:So.
Speaker A:So when we're talking about moral cowardice, I can see why certain people are cowards.
Speaker A:Okay, I can understand that.
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker A:I can sympathize with them because not everybody is in a position like you or I will.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:And now I almost.
Speaker A:It's like the right kinds of people need to speak out.
Speaker A:The right kinds of people need to Share their story to.
Speaker A:To give the rest of the world kind of the courage to start seeking and doing the things that they need to do is the way that I see it right now.
Speaker A:Will, I think this is really the last stand of Western civilization.
Speaker A:I think this is it, right?
Speaker A:Like, I'm not trying to.
Speaker A:This is it.
Speaker A:This is the last stand of Western civilization.
Speaker A:And what is going to determine whether or not it's going to be successful is one, whether or not you believe in Jesus Christ and attend church and read the Bible and regular participant in the faith or.
Speaker A:And number two is that you start sharing your testimony, start sharing your faith, start getting other people along lines with you.
Speaker A:I'm going to tell you right now, like a lot of people, they come to me and they go, how do we fix the public schools?
Speaker A:How do we fix schools?
Speaker A:How do we fix public education?
Speaker A:Do we need to get rid of the teachers union?
Speaker A:Do we need to pay the teachers more?
Speaker A:Do we need.
Speaker A:None of it has nothing to do with the real problem.
Speaker A:The real problem is that schools are godless.
Speaker A:There's no foundation of morals in public schools.
Speaker A:You know, I went to Catholic school my whole life, right?
Speaker A:We acted a certain way, right?
Speaker A:If one of us got out of line, a nun could pick up a Bible and like, go right to scripture and say, oh, right here.
Speaker A:These are the rules right here.
Speaker A:Oh, you have a problem with it, take it up with God, okay?
Speaker A:A public school doesn't have that kind of clout.
Speaker A:What I usually got asked as a public school teacher was like, why do we have to do things like this?
Speaker A:Why is it like this?
Speaker A:Why is it religious schools have an answer, public schools don't to the question.
Speaker A:So nobody.
Speaker A:So it doesn't have a believability factor to the children.
Speaker A:Children are always asking, well, why do I need to do this?
Speaker A:Why do I need to follow the rules?
Speaker A:Why do I need to take the.
Speaker A:Standardize this?
Speaker A:They're asking the right questions.
Speaker A:All the children are asking the right questions.
Speaker A:It's the public schools that are failing to supply the answers.
Speaker A:And so the answers are found inside of private schools, religious schools that are giving them the foundation, the Bible, what they need to be fulfilled with.
Speaker A:So, you know, you have these problems.
Speaker A:It's like, hey, are we need to pay the teachers more?
Speaker A:No, you're.
Speaker A:It's a.
Speaker A:It's a setup for success to be.
Speaker A:It's not set up to be successful from day one to begin with.
Speaker A:None of it is set up to be successful in the right way.
Speaker B:Okay?
Speaker B:So this this ties into some current events going on right now.
Speaker B:I guess Trump is going to sign an executive order to abolish the Department of Education.
Speaker B:And so I imagine, I imagine that you have a, you have a perspective on that.
Speaker B:I'd love to hear what you think of all that, both from being.
Speaker B:Having been a public school teacher and also from a religious perspective as well, based on what you were just saying.
Speaker A:So, I mean, I would be.
Speaker A:For this.
Speaker A:On paper, I think this is fine.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:But there is no real solution to this.
Speaker A:Right?
Speaker A:Like, getting rid of the Department of Education isn't going to solve the problem.
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker A:It's just going to change the way that the landscape is.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:How do you solve the problem is that you need God in schools.
Speaker A:Like, that's how you solve the problem.
Speaker A:Like, that's it.
Speaker A:There's no, there's no, there's no, like, hey, let's tweak this, or let's make the kids go for an hour longer or make sure that they're taking these kinds of classes that will do it.
Speaker A:No, none of that works.
Speaker A:The, the, the problem that's going on in these schools is that there's no re.
Speaker A:There's no real reason to do the right thing.
Speaker A:People don't have a real reason to do the right thing.
Speaker A:Right?
Speaker A:Like, let me tell you something about how non Christians, how their brains operate, okay?
Speaker A:This is how their brains operate.
Speaker A:They go like this.
Speaker A:Because they, because they tell me this.
Speaker A:They go, dino, why should I become a Christian?
Speaker A:There's no benefit to it.
Speaker A:What?
Speaker A:There's no benefit to it, right?
Speaker A:Like, what's the benefit of.
Speaker A:Right?
Speaker A:Like, they have this hormozy mindset to it.
Speaker A:I've been told this before.
Speaker A:They go, what's the big benefit?
Speaker A:Like, what do I get from this?
Speaker A:What do I get from going to church once a week?
Speaker A:Like, Will.
Speaker A:Like, like, let's be serious.
Speaker A:I think a lot of the outsiders who are skeptical, what they really see is like, why do I need to do all of this work?
Speaker A:Right?
Speaker A:They don't understand.
Speaker A:Because if they understood, they would be going to church, right?
Speaker A:Like, let's be real, there wouldn't.
Speaker A:If they understood what the benefits were, they would be going to church.
Speaker A:Okay?
Speaker A:So here's the problem.
Speaker A:You have all of these people who don't understand what the benefit of being a Christian is.
Speaker A:They just see a bunch of work.
Speaker A:They just see a bunch of, you know, they don't believe it's true.
Speaker A:They don't see anything that they can get out of it.
Speaker A:And what it really is, they're just chained to a transactional mindset.
Speaker A:Like, could you imagine going to God and being like, hey, vending machine, I'm gonna put in 50 cents.
Speaker A:What can you give me?
Speaker A:Right?
Speaker A:Like, what do I get out of this?
Speaker A:And so all of these guys look at the whole world.
Speaker A:This is the big plague.
Speaker A:The young men are consumed by this mindset, the transactional mindset.
Speaker A:It's killing our society.
Speaker A:And right?
Speaker A:So if you talk, like, talk about trans.
Speaker A:There's two sides of the coin here, right?
Speaker A:Transactional versus covenant, right?
Speaker A:A covenant is that you have faith, right?
Speaker A:And then you lead with love, right?
Speaker A:And then you have this transactional mindset where it's like, I give you this.
Speaker A:What do I get out of it back?
Speaker A:Why do I go to.
Speaker A:Why do I need to go to church, right?
Speaker A:Like something like 50% of Catholics don't even attend church, right?
Speaker A:They're probably sitting there being like, well, what am I going to get out of it today?
Speaker A:They don't understand, right?
Speaker A:And so they're looking at God like he's a vending machine.
Speaker A:It's like the Book of Job, right?
Speaker A:Book of Job was all about this.
Speaker A:It's like, you, you, you, Job wasn't looking to get anything out of this relationship with God, right?
Speaker A:And that's the real type of relationship that you need to have with God.
Speaker A:And so you have too many of these people who are like, well, why do I need to do this?
Speaker A:Like, I'm not going to make any more money if I believe, believe in this.
Speaker A:I'm not going to.
Speaker A:So why is this a poisonous mindset for the West?
Speaker A:And it needs to be eliminated to a degree, okay?
Speaker A:Is because it's perversed all aspects of our society now, right?
Speaker A:We talk about the low birth rates, right?
Speaker A:Elon wants to save the low birth rates.
Speaker A:Elon is clueless, okay?
Speaker A:Do you know why?
Speaker A:Because he has a transactional mindset.
Speaker A:You cannot fix the birth rates that are low when you embrace a transactional mindset.
Speaker A:And when you embrace, promote a transactional mindset.
Speaker A:Why?
Speaker A:Because any man can go look and say, oh, well, I'm just going to go look at Pornhub or like, all of these things.
Speaker A:I can get the what my benefit, right?
Speaker A:My needs will be fulfilled, right?
Speaker A:And I don't have to.
Speaker A:I can pay a few bucks, right?
Speaker A:Or free or whatever this thing, and my same needs are going to be fulfilled by this.
Speaker A:They're looking at the lens.
Speaker A:They're not looking at a relationship from a love standpoint.
Speaker A:They're not looking at a relationship from a two become one standpoint.
Speaker A:They're not looking at a relationship from a covenant standpoint.
Speaker A:They're looking at a relationship from a transactional standpoint because they've been conditioned and bred and their OS system in their minds works like that.
Speaker A:And they're NPCs.
Speaker A:And so what?
Speaker A:What?
Speaker A:What?
Speaker A:They are, right?
Speaker B:No, no, I'm smiling.
Speaker B:I agree.
Speaker A:Anyone who is incapable of embracing faith and having a covenant is an npc, right?
Speaker A:Anybody who is incapable of believing in the mysteries of faith is an NPC is.
Speaker A:Right?
Speaker A:Because they are chained to a transactional X plus Y equals Z type.
Speaker A:I got to do this.
Speaker A:Get that back.
Speaker A:I have to have it or my brain doesn't work.
Speaker A:And so you have of these.
Speaker A:All of these guys and young women who are like, well, why am I going to get married to a man?
Speaker A:He's going to stop my career.
Speaker A:Right?
Speaker A:Even the women have transactional mindsets now.
Speaker A:It's so sad.
Speaker A:And this is the reason.
Speaker A:And, well, this is the actual real reason why people aren't going to church.
Speaker A:They look at it and they go, what am I going to get from it?
Speaker A:Right?
Speaker A:Am I.
Speaker A: oing to go to church and get $: Speaker A:Am I going to get 10 extra likes on my post if I go to church?
Speaker A:They want to know.
Speaker A:They want to know in quantifiable form what they're going to get from God for believing in him.
Speaker A:And can you imagine if you were God, you'd be shaking your head no, right?
Speaker A:You'd be like, yeah, forget these people, man.
Speaker A:These people, Right, right.
Speaker A:Forget these people.
Speaker A:Like, why I would turn my back on those people, too.
Speaker A:And so this is the.
Speaker A:This is the re.
Speaker A:This is what we're seeing and now is public schools, young people.
Speaker A:But I.
Speaker A:The encouraging thing is that there are people because they do talk to me and they go, man, I went back to church because of what you were tweeting, right?
Speaker A:And I was blown away by the authenticity.
Speaker A:Like, I keep seeing this word sent to me.
Speaker A:It's like I went there and it was like the realest thing I ever felt.
Speaker A:And so you have the other.
Speaker A:The trick for how do you get people to embrace a transactional mindset is to appeal to the rational mind only.
Speaker A:And so you have these puppets like Ben Shapiro, they go pay.
Speaker A:Facts, not feelings, right?
Speaker A:You like the facts, not feelings, right?
Speaker A:Facts, not feelings.
Speaker A:Facts.
Speaker A:It's all propaganda because, like, that slogan itself is trying to make you feel Something Ben, right?
Speaker A:And so what you have is, you know, what's.
Speaker A:What is more real, right?
Speaker A:What you can see or what you can feel, right?
Speaker A:What is.
Speaker A:Right, like what is more real, what you can see or what you can feel?
Speaker A:And I think a lot of you should maybe ask yourself this question.
Speaker A:And, and this is.
Speaker A:And this is.
Speaker A:This is part of that transactional mind.
Speaker A:Like, they have to see it.
Speaker A:What am I.
Speaker A:What am I getting here?
Speaker A:Like, you know, right?
Speaker A:What am I getting here?
Speaker A:Where.
Speaker A:Where is this.
Speaker A:Where is this benefit immediately for me?
Speaker A:Look, I sell online.
Speaker A:I understand benefits, right?
Speaker A:Like, I understand how to sell.
Speaker A:People want to be able to see quantifiable results, right?
Speaker A:But you have so much that it's even pervades people from this, too much is gone to like, relationships and a religious perspective.
Speaker A:And what I mean a little bit about this is one thing that I've learned while creating content is people react based off of how they feel, okay?
Speaker A:And feelings basically rationalize the world to people.
Speaker A:Like, people.
Speaker A:People think what they feel is real, even though they don't think that what they feel is important, right?
Speaker A:Like, people really appeal more to their irrational side and feeling side as opposed to what they.
Speaker A:What they see, they think they have.
Speaker A:They believe in facts.
Speaker A:They think that they are rational, but they're actually not.
Speaker A:They use the rational and they use the numbers and they use the facts, right?
Speaker A:To justify all of their feelings, right?
Speaker A:So that's what you have right there.
Speaker A:So you have this feeling, right, where people are just like, I don't really get anything from going to church.
Speaker A:And then they rationalize.
Speaker A:It's like, I went to mass yesterday and I didn't get anything from it.
Speaker A:Why would I need to go again, right?
Speaker A:They asked me for money, right?
Speaker A:Like, I give.
Speaker A:I give to charities and I give to the poor.
Speaker A:Like, what.
Speaker A:What do I get from this, right?
Speaker A:And why.
Speaker A:Why do I.
Speaker A:Why do I.
Speaker A:Why do I need to do things the right way, right?
Speaker A:And so this is, again, the transactional mindset is the underlying problem.
Speaker A:It's the disease that has sprung from a godless found body, okay?
Speaker A:The disease that has sprung from a godless body is this transactional mindset with every little thing that we do.
Speaker B:There is so much fantastic stuff in there.
Speaker B:And this is why the transactional mindset doesn't work in a Christian way of thinking, because Christ calls us to come and die.
Speaker A:What do you.
Speaker B:What do you get out of it?
Speaker B:Well, maybe in this life you get nothing out of it.
Speaker B:In fact, not only maybe do you get nothing out of it.
Speaker B:Maybe you lose a lot of what you have.
Speaker B:And I think it's that hesitation, you know, to really like, well, maybe Christ will call you to give up this, this immoral, unrighteous business that you're engaged in.
Speaker B:Maybe you'll have all these relationships that you have to let go of because they've, they've been built on this transactional mindset and they can't be sustained in a covenantal, in a covenantal way of thinking.
Speaker B:I love how you, how you brought that in as well.
Speaker B:Because a covenant isn't about a transaction.
Speaker B:A covenant is about, is about a commitment.
Speaker B:And that's a word that's very popular in many of my circles.
Speaker B:And I think you're, you're very right in saying that we've lost our sense of being covenanted to each other.
Speaker B:You know, it's always, what will this relationship, what will this situation do to benefit me?
Speaker B:If it no longer benefits me anymore, then I'll just let it go.
Speaker B:As opposed to, no, I made a binding commitment to you with blessings for faithfulness and curses for betrayal.
Speaker B:We don't, we don't have, we don't even have that word covenant anymore, especially as it relates to marriage.
Speaker B:And so I think that's, that's really spot on that all of these, these binding relationships of, of mutual affection and affinity and commitment have been so frayed and torn apart.
Speaker B:I, I don't even know.
Speaker B:I could say when that started.
Speaker B:Maybe a couple hundred years ago, maybe 100 years ago.
Speaker A:It probably started around 5,000 years ago.
Speaker A:Okay, so what?
Speaker B:Yeah, there is that.
Speaker A:Because let's talk about the foundation of Western civilization, right?
Speaker A:It's foundation.
Speaker A:Its foundation is on the idea that you're not going to sacrifice, right?
Speaker A:So you have Abraham and Isaac, right?
Speaker A:The religion is founded on, it's like, oh, well, should we sacrifice somebody else for our own personal gains to the gods, right?
Speaker A:And so you have a whole shift mentality being like, it's not, it's not sacrificing someone else, it's you sacrificing yourself.
Speaker A:It's about what you do.
Speaker A:Right?
Speaker A:As I always think, like the story Abraham and Isaac is really interesting because.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:Like, so he leads, so he's there.
Speaker A:He's told to sacrifice his son for God, right?
Speaker A:And so this moment where the angel slaps the knife away from him at the last second is the moment that Western civilization is created.
Speaker A:Okay, now do you know when the transactional mindset started?
Speaker A:5 seconds after that, 5 seconds after that.
Speaker A:Because what Isaac, or sorry, what Abraham does immediately after is that he doesn't have full faith in God because he turns to a goat and sacrifices the goat instead.
Speaker A:Okay?
Speaker A:So even though God told him and said, hey, you know, don't do this, don't do that, you don't need to do this, right?
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker A:And we're going to even make you do the act and then you don't do it at the last second.
Speaker A:Abraham then still after all of that, turns to a goat and decides to sacrifice the goat, okay?
Speaker A:And because he didn't have full faith in God at that time, not even like full, full, full, full, full, like to the part where complete trust, right?
Speaker A:And so that transactional mindset has always been part of our minds, right?
Speaker A:Because it's like, okay, well I didn't do that, so I'm going to sacrifice the goat now to appease God, right?
Speaker A:Even though God was probably just like, whatever, okay, so you have this, this is, is, is now part of, just from, instead of that one part right there.
Speaker A:It's now you have all of this in every part, every aspect of society.
Speaker A:And it has really ramped up.
Speaker A:Like if you talk about the use of technology, right, it's really ramped up to the point where people are over consumed by this to the point that they could, this very well could destroy western civilization itself.
Speaker B:I want to check, I want to check.
Speaker B:I haven't actually heard that before.
Speaker B:That, that, that, that was a, that, that was something wrong that Abraham did.
Speaker B:Abraham looked up someone on this.
Speaker B:It's been a while, so I'm looking at, I just want to make sure we get that right.
Speaker B:So there's, there's Genesis 22, let's see, verse nine.
Speaker B:Do not lay a hand.
Speaker B:There was verse 12.
Speaker B:Do not do anything to him.
Speaker B:Now I know this is, this is an angel of the Lord.
Speaker B:Genesis 22, verse 12.
Speaker B:Do not lay a hand on the boy.
Speaker B:The angel said, do not do anything to him.
Speaker B:Now I know that you fear God because you have not withheld from me your son, your only son.
Speaker B:Abraham looked up and there in a thicket he saw a ram caught by its horns.
Speaker B:He went over and took the ram and sacrificed it as a burnt offering instead of his son.
Speaker B:So Abraham called that place, the Lord will provide.
Speaker B:And to this day it is said, on the mountain of the Lord, it will be provided.
Speaker B:So it doesn't seem to say anything there that that was something that Abraham should not have done.
Speaker B:I mean, I think the idea is that God provided the sacrifice instead of his son.
Speaker B:So I don't think that that was.
Speaker B:I don't think that's not.
Speaker B:That doesn't seem to be.
Speaker B:To be presented in the text as something Abraham should have done.
Speaker B:It was the righteous action to take a sacrifice was.
Speaker B:Was asked.
Speaker B:He was going to give his son and God said, no, withhold your son and here's a ram instead that you're sacrificed instead.
Speaker B:So I think that's presented as that was a righteous decision.
Speaker A:You could see it like that as well.
Speaker B:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker B:But I definitely know what you mean, that the idea.
Speaker B:Well, the transactional mindset would say I'm going to consciously, like God tells me to give this thing, but I don't want to give you that.
Speaker B:This is.
Speaker B:Perhaps Cain and Abel would be a better example of that.
Speaker B:Commands, give the best.
Speaker B:And you're like, well, no, I want to keep that back, but I'll give you this instead.
Speaker B:As opposed to, no, our covenant means that I will get what's demanded and trust that the righteous action itself is what will have the blessing, not simply just doing something that's quote unquote, good enough.
Speaker B:Like if you have a covenantal mindset with someone that you're in a covenant with, whether it be your wife or a friend that you start a business with or whatever, you give the thing that is demanded of the covenant and you trust that that righteous action will be rewarded in ways that might not add up, like something measurable, but the spiritual benefit of that to both of you and to the bond is, is what will be honored.
Speaker A:Absolutely.
Speaker A:And the way that it's used is.
Speaker A:The way now that it's used is tactically as well to divide people.
Speaker A:You know, you look at women, how they're told, hey, you know, if you get married and have kids, well, you're not going to be able to have your career.
Speaker A:You're not going to be able to do xyz.
Speaker A:But do you see how that transactional mindset is even used as a way to, like, get people to dislike each other and fight amongst each other?
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:So this is in the Bible, right.
Speaker A:Satan divides, right?
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:Satan declares war against those that are righteous and those.
Speaker A:And then the right kinds of people.
Speaker A:And so how does he do this is he takes people and he goes, well, like, look at them.
Speaker A:Look at that man.
Speaker A:He's going to stop you from having your career.
Speaker A:Look at this.
Speaker A:You don't need to go to church, you don't need to read the Bible.
Speaker A:You've got better things to do.
Speaker A:Go build your business instead.
Speaker A:Right?
Speaker A:So if you're looking at.
Speaker A:Again, if you're looking at everything from this transactional mind, is that how are you entering a covenant and relationship with God?
Speaker A:It's impossible, right?
Speaker A:And so what the.
Speaker A:The real question will is why do people think like this?
Speaker A:Like, why do people have the transactional mindset?
Speaker A:And why is it so obvious to people to think like this, right?
Speaker A:And it's because people only believe what they see.
Speaker B:That's right.
Speaker A:They only believe what they see.
Speaker A:Like, and this is something that has been like, I love the Renaissance and I love Florence, Italy, and stuff like that.
Speaker A:But you have this pervasive idea that comes into society around this time where people are just like, rationalism, right?
Speaker A:It's like, I only believe in what my two eyes see.
Speaker A:And like, if I don't see that, well, then it didn't happen, right?
Speaker A:The Book of John, Enzo, right?
Speaker A:With doubting Thomas, this always reminds me is like, there's something more than what you can see in this world, right?
Speaker A:There's like, you know, Thomas comes.
Speaker A:He's like, hey.
Speaker A:He comes back to the party, and they're like, I hope I get the Bible right this time on this one.
Speaker A:Like, I am.
Speaker B:Let's do it.
Speaker A:And so.
Speaker A:And so you have Thomas here, and he comes back, right?
Speaker A:And he's just like, hey, what's going on?
Speaker A:And everybody's like, hey, well, you know, Jesus was right here.
Speaker A:He's like, where's he at?
Speaker A:I don't see him.
Speaker A:Right?
Speaker A:And that is the.
Speaker A:That is that.
Speaker A:That is part of the transactional mindset as well as, oh, I don't see him.
Speaker A:I don't.
Speaker B:I want to pull that verse up.
Speaker A:Well, one of the things that I love right then and there is he turns around and then he runs right into Jesus, right?
Speaker A:And then what I love about this is, is that Jesus says, like, now, hey, look, this is my interpretation, okay?
Speaker A:I'm not saying that this is the interpretation.
Speaker A:I just want to make this clear, right?
Speaker A:But the way that I see it is that Jesus turns to him and he goes.
Speaker A:He goes, you know, you.
Speaker A:You knew me my whole life.
Speaker A:You saw me all the time.
Speaker A:You saw me perform miracles, and you didn't believe that I was here, right?
Speaker A:Think about all of the people who are never going to ever see me in life and still believe in me, right?
Speaker A:And so what he is.
Speaker A:He's talking about the covenant right there.
Speaker A:He's talking about, like, think about you.
Speaker A:And we've never, like, personally had dinner with Jesus, okay?
Speaker A:But Thomas did.
Speaker A:And yet even Then he was doubting at that time.
Speaker A:So did I get that right, Will, if you want to read that.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:So here's, so here's the verse.
Speaker B:So I've got John 20, verse 28 to 30.
Speaker B:28 says Thomas answered and said to him, my Lord and my God.
Speaker B:And Jesus said to him, because you have seen me, have you now believed?
Speaker B:Blessed, blessed are they who did not see and yet believed.
Speaker A:Absolutely.
Speaker B:And then I also have Hebrews 11:1.
Speaker B:Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.
Speaker B:Faith communicates to us the reality of these things, but we can't see them with our eyes.
Speaker B:And I think that's one of the great limitations of what it means to be human is that we are so reliant on our eyes, our senses.
Speaker A:I think it's a modern day problem, I do.
Speaker A:Because when you read about the Greeks, right, and stuff, and I've been reading Thomas Aquinas quite a bit lately as well.
Speaker A:And so what you have is you have, you have, you have, you have a deeper understanding like what the soul is, right?
Speaker A:Like this is what the soul is.
Speaker A:And so Greeks didn't sit around thinking like, oh, I can, I can tell everything.
Speaker A:And these were rational people, right?
Speaker A:But they had a balance.
Speaker A:They weren't like, oh, there's more than what we see in this world, right?
Speaker A:Like we have a soul, right?
Speaker A:This is concept.
Speaker A:Even the Greeks had Thomas Aquinas.
Speaker A:It's like you have a soul.
Speaker A:It's all of the parts that enter, all of the energy that surrounds you and runs all of your cells and everything.
Speaker A:That whole being around your body is your soul, right?
Speaker A:And so you have, what you have now is so many people, they don't even believe they have a soul, right?
Speaker A:So the real question and what's going on right now and how people are being manipulated is they don't understand what it is to be human, okay?
Speaker A:They believe that a human is just capable of doing a task or being rational and operating on a transactional plane.
Speaker A:And so I got on a spaces and I did a huge debate about AI and how AI was fake and phony and it's just a language, right?
Speaker A:And this was when like I had all of these like neurotic Microsoft engineers on stage with me and stuff like that.
Speaker A:They were coming up there and they were just like, but you don't understand, it's gonna da, da, da, da, da, da da, you know, whatever.
Speaker A:It's gonna be better at being a human than humans, right?
Speaker A:And all these, well, you don't even understand what it is to be human.
Speaker A:Probably because you're not Christian.
Speaker A:Okay, so what you have there is like, there's so much like, what is the energy that flows through you?
Speaker A:How do your cells operate?
Speaker A:Can any atheist ask me, answer all of these questions like, what is the point of you existing?
Speaker A:What is your purpose?
Speaker A:And so none of the atheists have any answers to that, which is just absolute.
Speaker A:And because why they don't understand what it is to be human.
Speaker A:They think human is just your body and your bones and your things and your stuff and you exist just to do XYZ task every single day.
Speaker A:Is this absolute nonsense?
Speaker A:I see somebody in the chat asking, this is good.
Speaker A:How do you transcend the transactional mindset without being naive?
Speaker A:I think it's okay to have some of it.
Speaker A:Like, I run a business for a living.
Speaker A:I do have a, like, you can't walk into my master class and I'm taking a year.
Speaker A:You told me this.
Speaker A:No.
Speaker A:Okay, you, your covenant is with God for my community.
Speaker A:It's transactional.
Speaker A:No, but from what you can do, from a little bit, from this transactional mindset in the world, I think is that you just need to recognize this.
Speaker A:I think you need to attend church regularly.
Speaker A:I think you need to read the Bible, I think you need to pray, right?
Speaker A:If you're doing those things, you're already above the transactional mindset.
Speaker A:You've already transcended the transactional mindset.
Speaker A:Because when you encounter people and things and friends and family and stuff like that, you're not going to look at them out of like, what can I get out of this?
Speaker A:Right?
Speaker A:You're not going to look at God like that.
Speaker A:You're already going to be at a higher level of awareness.
Speaker A:And so then you're going to look at it from the right perspective.
Speaker A:And then once you see these things, you can't unsee it.
Speaker A:I'll go on my X timeline.
Speaker A:Transactional mindset.
Speaker A:Transactional mindset.
Speaker A:Transactional mindset.
Speaker A:Transactional mindset.
Speaker A:There it is again.
Speaker A:And you'll see how it's eroding men and destroying men.
Speaker A:And red pill culture thrives on this transactional mindset.
Speaker A:Right?
Speaker A:Like that's like the backbone to the whole thing.
Speaker A:It's like, you don't need to get married, you don't need to find a woman.
Speaker A:They're just so like, think about this, that I even got in a fight with some big influencers about this.
Speaker A:There are, there are guys that believe that you should get married and then what what should you do as soon as you get married?
Speaker A:Oh, I don't even.
Speaker A:What's it called?
Speaker A:What's the thing that you do when you Prenuptial agreement.
Speaker A:I don't even know the name of it.
Speaker A:Right?
Speaker A:Because it's so stupid.
Speaker A:Right?
Speaker A:And so can you imagine getting married in front of God and being like, hey, I know we're getting married in front of you today.
Speaker A:Before we do this, I had my wife sign a contract, okay?
Speaker A:And in this contract, the two don't really become one.
Speaker A:Are you okay with this?
Speaker A:Right?
Speaker A:And like, it's such nonsense.
Speaker A:And so what a lot of these red pill guys say is like, you better do this or don't even bother doing this.
Speaker A:Fear, fear, fear, fear, fear.
Speaker A:Something bad is going to happen to you, you know?
Speaker A:So people who are the transactional mindset or afraid of the don't live in fear?
Speaker A:I don't live in fear.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:Do you live in like.
Speaker A:I don't live in fear.
Speaker A:What are you afraid of?
Speaker A:What are you afraid of?
Speaker A:I'm afraid to tell other people about my Christian faith.
Speaker A:Why do you think a shark is going to come up and bite your arm off?
Speaker A:What do you think is going to happen?
Speaker A:I'm afraid of living life without this transactional mindset in my relationships.
Speaker A:I'm afraid of getting married.
Speaker A:And then what you should really ask yourself is, who installed that fear in front of you?
Speaker A:Because that's who you should be mad at, who installed the fear?
Speaker A:Those are the people that you should.
Speaker A:That they, they should be afraid of you, Honestly.
Speaker A:And so what you're doing is you are reacting to the world.
Speaker A:Can you imagine being a man and living your life in this fearful state?
Speaker A:Pathetic.
Speaker A:It's pathetic.
Speaker B:A lot of men do.
Speaker A:A lot of them do.
Speaker A:It's unchristian.
Speaker A:What do you have to fear?
Speaker A:Like, all fear is a lack of faith, right?
Speaker A:All fear is a lack of faith in God.
Speaker A:I don't fear because I believe in God.
Speaker A:If I were to die tomorrow for my beliefs or whatever, I say, whatever, okay?
Speaker A:One of the things I like to study, Will, is I like to study military tactics and all these kinds of things.
Speaker A:History, all this stuff.
Speaker A:That's a whole nother story.
Speaker A:But one of the things that I like to study has been reading a lot about the French Revolution, okay?
Speaker A:And it's been blowing my mind away.
Speaker A:Because everything you've been told about the French Revolution is a lie, okay?
Speaker A:What you've been taught in school, like, the revolutionaries were good people who were, like, doing the right there's okay.
Speaker A:It's all nonsense.
Speaker B:No, Right.
Speaker A:You want to know how they were?
Speaker A:So one of the things that I find really fascinating because they killed a lot of people.
Speaker A:Right?
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker A:Well, I actually.
Speaker A:Wow.
Speaker A:This is.
Speaker A:So I just started to, like, read about, like, Marie Antoinette, Elizabeth of France, all these people who were, like, brought to the guillotine.
Speaker A:And eventually all those people that persecuted the king, Marie Antoinette and all of the royalty, they actually wound up on the guillotine as well.
Speaker A:And I find it really interesting because, you know, people like Marie Antoinette and especially Elizabeth of France, they all met death with courage.
Speaker A:They all met death with courage.
Speaker A:And I think you could tell a lot about a man, a woman, or a person, a person by the way that they meet death itself.
Speaker A:Okay?
Speaker A:All of the French revolutionaries, deep down, they might have thought of themselves as atheists or even said they were atheists.
Speaker A:But man, when they were about to die, they all squealed like pigs.
Speaker A:It's true.
Speaker A:They all wept.
Speaker A:They all.
Speaker A:They all.
Speaker A:They all met death because they knew something was right behind that corner.
Speaker A:They couldn't see it, but they knew because if they were really atheists and they were just going to die, and they'd just be like, okay, whatever.
Speaker A:Right?
Speaker A:None of them met it with courage.
Speaker A:Elizabeth of France, when she died, what she said was, save me for last.
Speaker A:And she prayed over every single person who was being put to death out loud, as loud as she could, and then she was put to death, no fear, because she believed in God.
Speaker A:And so you have this neurotic mentality that's going through society like, propagated by shows like Seinfeld, right?
Speaker A:They don't have any real relationships, they don't have any covenants, they don't have any connections with people.
Speaker A:It's just a bunch of people who are selfish in transactional mindset and into themselves.
Speaker A:That's what Seinfeld is, right?
Speaker A:Like, those are all the characters.
Speaker A:Why?
Speaker A:Because they fear God.
Speaker A:And they're all neurotics because of it.
Speaker A:And it's like, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha.
Speaker A:They're so.
Speaker A:It is a funny.
Speaker A:Like, I'm not gonna lie, the show actually is funny.
Speaker A:Like, okay, but what it really does is it helps spread neuroticism through this world, right?
Speaker A:And so you have this neurotic mindset, just like, hey, people acting like grown adults, acting like children, taking no responsibility for their actions.
Speaker A:I'm not going to get married.
Speaker A:Look.
Speaker A:Oh, well, I broke up with her because of this.
Speaker A:X, Y, Z.
Speaker A:She had man hands or something like that.
Speaker A:Just some like silly things, always looking for something, right?
Speaker A:And so what you have is people who are just basically afraid of death itself.
Speaker A:And so when people are just like, hey, I am, you know, afraid of being in a covenant again, it's just a lack of faith.
Speaker A:Because if you have faith in God, you're going to do what you need.
Speaker A:You're going to do things the right way.
Speaker A:And guess what?
Speaker A:Things are all.
Speaker A:You shouldn't act.
Speaker A:You shouldn't even be afraid.
Speaker A:Right?
Speaker A:You shouldn't even be afraid of these things.
Speaker A:You're just being afraid of silly things.
Speaker A:Fear is how you are manipulated.
Speaker A:That's what it is.
Speaker A:It's just the conduit.
Speaker A:Fear is a conduit to manipulation from Satan.
Speaker A:Faith is a conduit to God.
Speaker A:Okay, which do you choose?
Speaker B:It's so funny because when you and I talked for the first time, whenever that was a couple years ago, I wouldn't have predicted that.
Speaker B:Well, really, either of us.
Speaker B:But I wouldn't have predicted that our next conversation would be about these really important topics.
Speaker B:And I think, you know, you and I met in person.
Speaker B:Was it October?
Speaker B:It was late October, I think, just before the election, actually.
Speaker B:And I was so grateful to get to spend time with you and your family and get to meet face to face.
Speaker B:And I think everyone can feel it now.
Speaker B:But, like, the sincerity that people are feeling from you, it doesn't just go away when the camera turns off.
Speaker B:Like, you and your family, that you live this out.
Speaker B:And I just think that's.
Speaker B:That's really great because one of the things that's happening right now is, you know, Christianity is kind of trendy, and there's a way in which I.
Speaker B:I could.
Speaker B:Yeah, and there's a way in which.
Speaker A:That's good.
Speaker A:That's great news, actually.
Speaker B:It is.
Speaker A:I think this is good.
Speaker A:I understand what you're saying.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:I think people.
Speaker A:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker B:No, it's very good.
Speaker B:I think.
Speaker B:I think it's a good thing that Christianity be normalized, you know, I think it's a good thing that people be talking about it.
Speaker B:And I think that there's a way in which people still manage to bring the transactional mindset towards suddenly making these.
Speaker B:These grand professions of faith, because they see it as benefiting them in some.
Speaker B:In some way socially.
Speaker B:And so, yes, so I think it's a good thing that Christianity is being talked about more in our sort of Godless, secular, transactional mindset world, as long as people are careful not to bring an attitude like, oh, well, all these cool people are talking about Christianity.
Speaker B:I can get in with the cool people if I talk about that.
Speaker B:And there's a lot of that happening right now.
Speaker A:I still think that this is a still a good thing.
Speaker A:Ish.
Speaker A:Now, I will say that I'm going to preface this by saying that that's what it feels like to me.
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker A:I haven't sat here and contemplated this one long enough to maybe come up with definitive idea.
Speaker A:But here's the thing is like there is strength in people.
Speaker A:Like for instance, I tweeted about it because I wanted.
Speaker A:Because I knew people would see it.
Speaker A:And then that would.
Speaker A:When they see like a big account online doing it, they're more likely to do it as well.
Speaker A:And then so they go there and then they get into it.
Speaker A:And I've gotten messages, I read one out earlier saying like, hey, I am attending church now because of this and I'm doing xyz.
Speaker A:And so I do think there is.
Speaker A:I understand like the Russell Brands, right.
Speaker A:Like, I think that the skepticism is fine.
Speaker A:Like, I, I caught flack.
Speaker A:I questioned why Michael Knowles would bring on.
Speaker A:What's her name?
Speaker A:Nayla.
Speaker A:Nyla.
Speaker B:I don't even know Nala, right?
Speaker A:Because what have people have said to me is that she hasn't really actually changed any of the things that she does and she's just using this as a flag right now.
Speaker A:I, I think that the.
Speaker A:It more deserves on Michael Knowles for platforming her, right?
Speaker A:Like, he can choose millions of different Christians to choose to have to come onto his platform.
Speaker A:And it.
Speaker A:Right, because when you have something like as big as he does and as big as audience he has, right?
Speaker A:You're basically what you have is you are you are you.
Speaker A:You are almost a way is an endorsement, right?
Speaker A:So when, when you, when you're putting somebody on there on that stage, is that, is that really the best person that you could put up there?
Speaker A:Especially if, like, there's a lot of questions about xyz, maybe you.
Speaker A:Maybe that's not best for them, right?
Speaker A:Like, maybe they should spend time getting away from the lights and getting away from the camera and getting away and doing and building their relationship with God instead of putting in them in front of all of these cameras and saying, hey, this X, Y, Z.
Speaker A:If especially if they're not doing it like the right kind of way.
Speaker A:And then so you might go to me and go like, well, this might bring other people back into the church, but like there's other people.
Speaker A:Michael Knowles is a smart person.
Speaker A:He can choose from millions of different Christians to bring onto his Platform will.
Speaker A:He could choose you.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:Like anybody.
Speaker A:I'm sure there's people who are listening or watching would be better tested.
Speaker A:Faith.
Speaker A:But he's doing it for the.
Speaker A:That is, the question would be, is, but he needs the rating.
Speaker A:Right?
Speaker A:But he needs.
Speaker A:So.
Speaker A:So really we are at the transactional mindset there, too, because this is that maybe if he was more interesting, he would be able to get better ratings.
Speaker A:Right?
Speaker A:Like, there's that too.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:So there.
Speaker A:I mean, I don't understand.
Speaker A:So it's like, I have to bring her on so that I can get high ratings.
Speaker A:Maybe you do a better job.
Speaker A:Whenever I create some of my content, I don't go, like, I always blame myself.
Speaker A:I don't think, like, hey, I have to promote and platform this horrible person.
Speaker A:I.
Speaker A:To get the ratings.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:But then what.
Speaker A:Then what are you.
Speaker A:Right?
Speaker A:What is this?
Speaker A:Right?
Speaker A:No, I'm gonna platform the right kinds of people.
Speaker A:Right?
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker A:The Put the right people, promote the right kinds of people, endorse the right kinds of people, talk about the right kinds of people.
Speaker A:That's what I do with my platform, and I'm gonna be successful at it as well.
Speaker A:So this talk where it's like, well, he has to do it about xyz, you're just making excuses for the guy, and he should probably take more responsibility if he has to dive that low to get the ratings.
Speaker A:Maybe it's a him problem.
Speaker A:That's just me.
Speaker A:That's my take on it.
Speaker B:No, I agree with you.
Speaker A:And I think, by the way, like, we can keep rolling, man.
Speaker B:Let's, let's.
Speaker B:Let's go.
Speaker B:Let's go.
Speaker B:I'll have to troubleshoot something on my camera in just a second, but I'll get to that.
Speaker B:But I think you're.
Speaker B:I think you're really right about people who platform celebrities that make big professions of faith immediately after doing so.
Speaker B:I think it's.
Speaker B:I think it's very unkind.
Speaker B:I think it's unkind to them.
Speaker B:It doesn't, though it doesn't necessarily seem like it.
Speaker B:I think it is kind of parasitic in a way.
Speaker B:Like, oh, well, this person has this gigantic platform, and so I'm going to have them here to talk about them and validate them in this decision.
Speaker B:It's like, well, wait a second.
Speaker B:Are you actually about the thing that you say that you're about, as you say, should you not step away for a little while and maybe go reflect on this before making it part of your public and even your economic identity?
Speaker B:And that's the Part that's kind of troubling is that like, oh, hey, I'm Christian now and now subscribe to my members only thing.
Speaker B:I've been a Christian for like two weeks and now I'm going to talk about this.
Speaker B:It's like, well, do you know what it is that you've actually signed up for?
Speaker B:Can you know what it is you signed up for?
Speaker B:I didn't start talking about becoming a Christian, you know, probably for about two years after I started my podcast, because I didn't know.
Speaker B:And I.
Speaker B:And I had read, you know, mere Christianity by C.S.
Speaker B:lewis and I had read Simply Christian by N.T.
Speaker B:wright, and my own sanctification needed to kick in.
Speaker B:And even then my whole platform just became, let me have on people who know what they're talking about so I can talk to them and so I can learn from them.
Speaker B:Not let me stand up and start delivering sermons or telling people who have believed these things what's what.
Speaker B:Like, you people have been believers their whole lives.
Speaker A:Can we talk about the role?
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker A:Because I feel like I just went kind of through this as well.
Speaker A:Will.
Speaker A:Right?
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:So.
Speaker A:So what should we be doing instead?
Speaker A:Or like, what should like Naila be doing or all of these people doing instead?
Speaker A:And so I came.
Speaker A:So I was away for 20 something years from the church again.
Speaker A:I was raised Catholic.
Speaker A:My family, my, my aunt was a Carmelite nun, so it was like my extended family was, was very Catholic.
Speaker A:My immediate family wasn't so much.
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker A:But I did go to school and I did find myself coming back into the faith 20 years later.
Speaker A:And what this, what this was for me was I'm not going to come up here and, and try to tell people how to be Catholic or Christian.
Speaker A:Okay?
Speaker A:So from my content, it's.
Speaker A:None of this is like, this is what we should do or xyz.
Speaker A:What?
Speaker A:Well, except for this one little thing here, because I do understand social media.
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker A:Only from a social media perspective, I think is like, what we could do is just encourage people to go to church.
Speaker A:That's all we need to do.
Speaker A:Just encourage people, lead people to scripture, lead people to church.
Speaker A:Anyone can do that, right?
Speaker A:You don't have to have like this deep understanding about xyz, but what you can do, say is like, hey, I'm a sinner.
Speaker A:Hey, I know xyz.
Speaker A:I'm.
Speaker A:I'm learning about xyz.
Speaker A:And then just encourage other people to be able to participate and do the same as well.
Speaker A:And I think if.
Speaker A:I think anyone can do these things.
Speaker A:So what I did.
Speaker A:As soon as.
Speaker A:One of the reasons why I started.
Speaker A:I started tweeting about how many people I was seeing in church.
Speaker A:When I was like, I go to church, Will, it's standing room only 10 minutes before mass starts.
Speaker A:I couldn't.
Speaker A:I cannot believe this.
Speaker A:Like, I seriously cannot believe.
Speaker A:Like, I look around, they've had it.
Speaker A:They had to add another service.
Speaker A:There's four Sunday services now at our church.
Speaker A:And it is just.
Speaker A:Absolutely.
Speaker A:And they're building a new church.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:All at the same time, twice the size.
Speaker A:And I just started tweeting about this.
Speaker A:I got retweeted by Jordan Peterson about.
Speaker A:About this.
Speaker A:This was really cool.
Speaker A:And yeah, multiple times.
Speaker A:Because I was talking about how there was a really great, great revival that I was seeing.
Speaker A:And it wasn't just me.
Speaker A:Other people were noticing about that as well.
Speaker A:And I knew just by talking about other people going to church and myself going to church, what would happen.
Speaker A:Well, other people are going to be going to church as well.
Speaker A:So that's what we can do.
Speaker A:We don't.
Speaker A:I don't have to be there sitting here being like, hey, this is what you need to believe.
Speaker A:Or this is like a.
Speaker A:Just encourage people to read the Bible, go to church, pray, and then, you know, the Holy Spirit will take a course from there.
Speaker A:That's the way that I view it.
Speaker A:You don't have to have every little thing figured out.
Speaker B:That's right.
Speaker B:And I think.
Speaker B:But those are the important things.
Speaker B:The spiritual disciplines are the important things that anyone at any stage in their faith walk can encourage people in.
Speaker B:But talking about doctrine, talking about, you know, what.
Speaker B:What other believers should be doing or should be thinking, I think that for.
Speaker B:For new believers, that's very dangerous territory to get into.
Speaker B:Now, for example, I can talk about, hey, you'll hear some new age stuff that I see in the church, right?
Speaker B:Because that's my background and I know how to spot it.
Speaker B:But for me to get up and start talking about, well, let me tell you about the Trinity, or let me tell you about, you know, reading scripture.
Speaker B:Like, like how to interpret scripture, like, no, no, no.
Speaker B:I could say, here's what I've learned, right?
Speaker B:And.
Speaker B:And phrase it that way.
Speaker B:But to, but to start, you know, talking about things like, should, you know, beyond.
Speaker B:Like, hey, this is just my own personal walk of sanctification.
Speaker B:That's very, that's very, very dangerous territory.
Speaker B:And I've been very careful about that, particularly because there are men that have been ordained, they've studied it for years.
Speaker B:There's thousands of Years of tradition.
Speaker B:I've got some of the books back here.
Speaker B:The Westminster Confession of Faith is just over my shoulder.
Speaker B:Do I fully understand that?
Speaker B:Because until I understand something like that, I really shouldn't be preaching doctrine to people beyond my limited understanding of it.
Speaker B:So let me invite people on to my platform who can teach others instead of assuming that I am a teacher.
Speaker B:And I, you know, I had someone advise me about that.
Speaker B: I think it was: Speaker B:It was a great piece of advice.
Speaker B:He said, you know, will you really have to let people know that you are not to be used, Your platform is not to be used as a substitute for church?
Speaker B:I was like, that's really good.
Speaker B:That's a really good point.
Speaker B:And not because I was preaching doctrine, but because I had men on who were.
Speaker B:And so I did a whole episode.
Speaker B: I think it was September: Speaker B:Go actually become a member of a church, Be part of a body, participate in community, and to bring it back to what you're saying, be part of a covenant.
Speaker B:Because that responsibility will help grow you up, grow you in the faith faster than anything.
Speaker B:And I think it's very easy for people to participate online and have this illusion of being part of something versus, like, no, you go be part of a church and you deal with all the different things that are involved with being part of a church.
Speaker B:For example, things that you don't like, things that you do like, people you don't get along with, people you do get along with.
Speaker B:It's like a family, right?
Speaker B:So you go and you show up and you be part of the family and you grow through that process, as opposed to, you know what?
Speaker B:I'm going to do the easy, convenient thing, and I'm just going to listen to podcasts, I'm going to watch sermons online, and I'm going to call that church.
Speaker B:Well, no, that's, that's.
Speaker B:That's pretty easy to have this illusion that you're part of something, but you're not actually part of something.
Speaker B:You're not growing through struggle.
Speaker B:You're not growing through conflict and reconciliation.
Speaker B:And so I think being able to talk about things like that is okay.
Speaker B:But to stand up on a platform of hundreds of thousands or millions of people and say, now I am suddenly the authority on doctrine, because I have.
Speaker B:Because I have these people who listen to me, I think it's a very dangerous ego trap for literally Anybody, but particularly new believers, right?
Speaker A:Absolutely.
Speaker A:All you need to do and, and again, all you need to do is just.
Speaker A:I just encourage people to go to church.
Speaker A:That's what I do.
Speaker A:That's all I do.
Speaker A:The way I say is, every time you attend church, it's a win for God and a loss for Satan.
Speaker A:That's it.
Speaker A:Every single Sunday.
Speaker A:That's it.
Speaker A:So you need to go every.
Speaker A:Give God a w.
Speaker A:Every single Sunday and go attend your church.
Speaker B:That's right.
Speaker B:Prayer, pray, read the Bible, attend church.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker B:Work on, like, grow in the faith.
Speaker B:You know, read things that are challenging, Read books on, read books on doctrine or at the level that you're at, you don't have to go diving into, you know, reformed dogmatics.
Speaker B:You can start with RC Sproul or something like that.
Speaker B:Something that's more, something that's more popular.
Speaker B:You don't have to go straight in, you know, to a seminary level education.
Speaker B:And I think that's the way, you know, someone had asked, how do I transcend the transactional mindset?
Speaker B:That's the way that you actually, that's one of the ways that you actually do that, is to engage thoughtfully, mindfully with the faith that you say that you profess.
Speaker B:How might you be wrong about the things that you believe?
Speaker B:What areas of ignorance and blindness might you have?
Speaker B:How willing are you to confront yourself with the things that you don't know, risk being wrong?
Speaker B:Repentance, you know, confess, repent, make restitution.
Speaker B:And that's how you overcome the transactional mindset.
Speaker B:Like, Jesus didn't die on the cross.
Speaker B:Like, what's in it for me?
Speaker B:He gave of himself freely.
Speaker B:And that, I think is the real spirit behind overcoming the transactional mindset is not to think, well, if I give you this, what will I get from it?
Speaker B:It's like, no, this is asked of you.
Speaker B:You simply give.
Speaker B:You give for the joy of giving it with no expectation of reward or return.
Speaker B:And so we all can be the ones to overcome the transactional mindset through our choices, not to simply think that way and act in the opposite direction, right?
Speaker A:Absolutely.
Speaker A:I'm with you, Will.
Speaker A:I'm with you 100% on this.
Speaker A:Absolutely.
Speaker B:So one of the things that you said earlier, awesome, by the way, one of the things that you said earlier was about, I don't remember how you phrased it, maybe angry voices, aggressive voices, coming from a Christian platform.
Speaker B:And that's, that's another thing that I've been seeing a lot of lately.
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker A:So, hey, I think a lot of these people, now that the election's done, they're thinking about this is.
Speaker A:This is, this is.
Speaker A:We need to talk about social media and its relationship with Christianity.
Speaker A:Right?
Speaker B:Do it.
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker A:So again, I'm.
Speaker A:I hate to.
Speaker A:I hate to appeal to me as being an expert, but like, I have been online.
Speaker A:I do have a huge audience.
Speaker A:We do do 100 million impressions, 350,000 followers.
Speaker B:I want to know a little bit.
Speaker A:It's like, it's like I can see, like, I know why people are doing things.
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker A:And the why is the disturbing part.
Speaker A:So I see a lot of.
Speaker A:And this is a lot like, you know, Protestants, Catholics and stuff.
Speaker A:Like, they come online.
Speaker A:I think we're post election now.
Speaker A:So there's a lot of people who have built up their audiences online who are now thinking, like, what do I need to tweet about to get the similar kinds of engagement that I was getting back in October and November?
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker A:Oh, let's pick a fight with XYZ today.
Speaker A:You know, I need to get to a thousand likes today on a post.
Speaker A:I need to get to my impressions.
Speaker A:I need my Elon bucks and X ad revenue.
Speaker A:I want to make sure.
Speaker A:So I'm going to find a tweet about the most irritating, irritating point about whose ever denomination or whatever it is, and I'm going to post it online and I'm going to say they're going to hell or they're not Catholic or they're not Christian or they're not XYZ or they're not good or like, I'm gonna come off with this like, really strong thing.
Speaker A:And, and what you're really doing is you're abusing Christianity for engagement.
Speaker A:Like, you are.
Speaker A:You are.
Speaker A:Like, you can.
Speaker A:I can engineer a post that will get people up and you know, one thing to do it with, like triggering a lib or something like that about and making something look absurd.
Speaker A:Okay, but then there's another thing with straw manning and trying to make put words in people's mouth and trying to start a fight just to start a fight for argument's sake and just being mean to people.
Speaker A:Like, just straight up, like, if you read the comments, they're just, they're just mean.
Speaker A:Like, good people don't write these kinds of things.
Speaker A:And I think what you're seeing is a lot of Christian influencers.
Speaker A:Influencers who are on there.
Speaker A:I almost think, like, they're all run by like the same account too.
Speaker A:It's like there's so many, like, faceless ones.
Speaker A:I wonder if, like there's like an army of people or something like that.
Speaker A:They're working behind the scenes.
Speaker A:Like, oh, you know what will really make, you know, these people mad today?
Speaker A:If we all say this together at the same time and like, oh, you know, and then it gets massive engagement.
Speaker A:And what it really is, is it's really.
Speaker A:It's really bad for Christianity.
Speaker A:Like, even.
Speaker A:Even, like debates, okay?
Speaker A:Like, I've even seen, like, civil debates happen on spaces.
Speaker A:And the more I think about it, even, like, those debates are, I think conversation is good.
Speaker A:I think, like, what we're doing right now is good.
Speaker A:I think finding commonality is good.
Speaker A:I think so.
Speaker A:So.
Speaker A:So here.
Speaker A:Here's the problem is, like the Facebookification of X, right?
Speaker A:Why was Facebook so popular eight years ago is because Aunt Margaret could go on Facebook and complain and show her politics and look like it.
Speaker A:Like, this is right.
Speaker A:Facebook was.
Speaker A:Was popular like eight to 10 years ago because everybody would just like, rant, like, shake their fist at this.
Speaker A:And that's what this is now is like.
Speaker A:You see the face of now since Musk took over.
Speaker A:It's the face of a vacation of X, where it's not like genuinely interesting ideas.
Speaker A:It's just like, hey, we're going to get people all riled up and, like, say the things and then we'll know and we'll be able to engineer shots and we'll be able to get people all riled up about it.
Speaker A:And what you're doing is.
Speaker A:It's not even a good way to convince people to be on your side either.
Speaker A:It's bad persuasion, too.
Speaker A:And so if you wanted to convince somebody to be Christian, you don't go to them and go.
Speaker A:You beat them over.
Speaker A:You get to know the person first, actually have a conversation with them, get to know who they are.
Speaker A:Look for commonality between you and them.
Speaker A:Like, have.
Speaker A:Have real interest.
Speaker A:Like, don't sit there and go, like, wag your finger at them, acting like you are a better person than them.
Speaker A:And that's.
Speaker A:That's just going to raise their defenses up higher, okay?
Speaker A:What you need to do is people want to build relationships with people that they know.
Speaker A:And they, like, think about how the apostles worked, right?
Speaker A:Did they, like, they.
Speaker A:They went and actually lived inside the Aries, lived inside the communities, embedded themselves in these kinds of communities, got to know the people that were inside of her.
Speaker A:Of course, they would correct them and try to make them know, but they would look for comm.
Speaker A:Right?
Speaker A:And so you have all of these keyboard warriors, Christian keyboard warriors out there who are just looking to pick fights with other people.
Speaker A:And what you're really doing is you're not even convincing them to join your side.
Speaker A:You're making Christianity look bad.
Speaker A:You're getting people upset.
Speaker A:You're, you're.
Speaker A:There's people that have come to me being like, yeah, I've had to, like, stop being on social media because all I do is just re.
Speaker A:Just put them on mute.
Speaker A:Like, just stop engaging with these people.
Speaker A:Put them on mute.
Speaker A:And I think actually calling them out would be a good way to do.
Speaker A:I've actually called a few of them out just being like, my least favorite accounts on X are the Christian accounts that just cause fights with other Christians.
Speaker A:Like, that's it.
Speaker A:Like, they are my least favorite accounts on X.
Speaker A:Why don't you do something again?
Speaker A:By the way, I've learned this in a long time.
Speaker A:The type of content you create will attract the audience that you deserve.
Speaker A:Okay?
Speaker A:So if you go online every single day and go, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, right?
Speaker A:It's like the haters.
Speaker A:It's the haters club.
Speaker A:Hey, all they do is hate.
Speaker A:Then you're going to attract a hateful, angry audience.
Speaker A:Those are the people that are going to click the follow button.
Speaker A:Those are the people that are going to engage with your content.
Speaker A:Not people who are, like, naturally curious about Christianity and want to be a better person and want to raise a family and want to do well for themselves and want to build something and want to do something to glorify God.
Speaker A:Right?
Speaker A:You're just going to attract people who are just angry, and it's like, is that the audience?
Speaker A:So, so why don't they wind up, like, in their own little circle?
Speaker A:They wind up, like, creating this content that's angry all the time.
Speaker A:They get the good engagement, so they think they need to do more of it, and then they wind up getting that audience, and then they can't.
Speaker A:They try to deviate from this path once or twice, and then it doesn't do well because they never built that audience.
Speaker A:They built the angry audience, and now that's all they have.
Speaker A:They are doomed.
Speaker A:Like Sisyphus, right?
Speaker A:They're doomed to go every day.
Speaker A:They are now doomed to their fate of going onto the keyboard and typing angry single stuff every single day and getting people all riled up.
Speaker A:Because they view the world through a transactional mindset.
Speaker A:That's why.
Speaker A:And so they believe their worth is tied into how many likes, retweets and comments they're getting under their posts.
Speaker A:Okay?
Speaker A:They turned their own faith into a Dopamine hit.
Speaker A:Oh, my gosh.
Speaker A:If I don't get to.
Speaker A:My gosh, if I don't anger this other denomination today, I'm not gonna hit 200 likes.
Speaker A:How sad is that?
Speaker A:Like, yeah, if I don't say these awful things about these people and lie about them, I won't be able to get.
Speaker A:So I've been really careful to kind.
Speaker A:Like, I have had some funny posts.
Speaker A:Okay, look, I'm Catholic.
Speaker A:Like, I.
Speaker A:I did have the original, like, the Protestant church and the Pizza Hut thing.
Speaker A:Like, I did.
Speaker A:I would admit that.
Speaker A:Okay?
Speaker A:It was.
Speaker A:It's.
Speaker A:It's.
Speaker A:It's.
Speaker A:It's absurd, though.
Speaker A:Okay?
Speaker A:That's like, I actually don't really believe that, guys.
Speaker A:Okay?
Speaker A:I just want to say that, right?
Speaker A:Like, it's.
Speaker A:It's using humor from an absurdity standpoint.
Speaker A:I'm not actually trying to.
Speaker A:Like, I did get.
Speaker A:So people did message me about that.
Speaker A:Like, that's not true.
Speaker A:Okay, fine.
Speaker A:So, like, you know, I did an opposite of that, too, where it was all good and stuff like that.
Speaker A:Of course it didn't do as well, but, like, I don't sit there all day, right?
Speaker A:Which is fine.
Speaker A:I knew it wouldn't, but I did it anyway.
Speaker A:So I.
Speaker A:I don't sit there, though, and tie every single post into, like, how many likes or tweets.
Speaker A:You know, that's not what you're.
Speaker A:That's not what you should be doing.
Speaker A:That's not what you.
Speaker A:You should be.
Speaker A:Your content is your life.
Speaker A:Now, if you believe these things right, about xyz, maybe you can come at it from a positive perspective.
Speaker A:So, like, for all those Christian influencers who are just getting other people riled up all day long or telling people they're bad or they're going to hell about X, Y, Z, maybe you should, like, instead show people, right?
Speaker A:Right?
Speaker A:Instead of just, like, telling people, maybe you should show, like, hey, I'm doing this charity drive this week.
Speaker A:Or, hey, I'm working with this.
Speaker A:I'm working with the poor.
Speaker A:I'm doing.
Speaker A:And not for likes, right?
Speaker A:Like, you could just do it just to do it because you're a good human being, and maybe that'll inspire somebody else to do it, right?
Speaker A:Or, hey, you know what?
Speaker A:I'm going to church today.
Speaker A:Who's joining with me?
Speaker A:Who's going there?
Speaker A:I invited two people to go to church with me.
Speaker A:You know, maybe you can encourage people to start doing the right things by showing that you do the right things instead of just sitting there wagging fingers and treating other Christians poorly.
Speaker A:I just think it's.
Speaker A:It's a.
Speaker A:It's.
Speaker A:It's an unchristian thing to do.
Speaker B:It's very tempting to use social media to fight battles that either you have no real ability to fight or win or that are deeply counterproductive.
Speaker B:And I see a lot of that.
Speaker B:And, you know, I.
Speaker B:I just look at that and say, that's not something that I have any desire to participate in.
Speaker B:I can engage in theological discussions, denominational discussions.
Speaker B:I can do all that.
Speaker B:I just don't.
Speaker B:I don't want to participate in any of that because I don't think it's going to go anywhere.
Speaker B:And in fact, even when I.
Speaker B:Even when I engage with kind of New Age Eastern mysticism people, I always make sure to differentiate between the.
Speaker B:The apostles of false religion, because they are out there.
Speaker B:I have a.
Speaker B:I think.
Speaker B:I'm pretty sure it's a woman who follows me, and she's an advocate for Advaita Vedanta, Hinduism, essentially Hindu mysticism.
Speaker B:It's really bad.
Speaker B:It's really bad.
Speaker B:So I will.
Speaker B:And she engages quite aggressively, and I will engage her back, you know, in the same spirit that she approaches me with, obviously not being rude or condescending or anything like that, but in the same spirit of, like, no, this is.
Speaker B:This is righteous.
Speaker B:A righteous form of combat.
Speaker B:But an average person who shows up asking honest questions will get a.
Speaker B:Will get an honest, loving response.
Speaker B:And so I think that that's a.
Speaker B:That's an appropriate way to engage Christian, Christianly.
Speaker B:But, like, when you do that with your brothers and your sisters in the faith, you know, over issues that.
Speaker B:You guys are not going to work this out on the timeline.
Speaker B:I'm sorry, People have been burned and hanged.
Speaker A:Yeah, like.
Speaker A:Like those things, right?
Speaker A:Like what, What?
Speaker A:You're not going to convince anybody because of a tweet that they saw.
Speaker A:They're not going to be like, oh, that's.
Speaker A:That's a banger.
Speaker A:That's it.
Speaker A:Like, I'm out.
Speaker A:Like, you know what I'm saying?
Speaker A:Like, it's so absurd.
Speaker A:That's just not how the world works.
Speaker A:Okay?
Speaker B:That meme totally changed everything for me.
Speaker A:Right?
Speaker A:Like, you know, so.
Speaker A:Especially with things.
Speaker A:When it comes from a covenant perspective.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:Somebody was talking about the transactional mindset in the comment section.
Speaker A:I also want to say something like this is.
Speaker A:And I think this is an underrated.
Speaker A:I think one of the most important books that a man can read other than the Bible.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:Release a story.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:You need to Familiarize yourself with Dr.
Speaker A:Faustus okay?
Speaker A:And so, Dr.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:So, Doc, it's, I think, the most underrated story that exists.
Speaker A:And I think everybody should take a look at this.
Speaker A:So Dr.
Speaker A:Faustus, right, is someone who gets ensnared because the Satan works through a transactional mindset, right?
Speaker A:Dr.
Speaker A:Faustus is a wealthier guy, right?
Speaker A:I think he's a baron or something like that.
Speaker A:And, you know, he's bored, right?
Speaker A:He has idle hands.
Speaker A:And so one day, he decides to seek someone who can find him.
Speaker A:The devil.
Speaker A:And it's like, hey, look, I want to make a deal with the devil.
Speaker A:I want a more interesting life, right?
Speaker A:And so he makes a deal with the devil, a transaction.
Speaker A:Like, he actually signs over his life to the devil.
Speaker A:And what's really interesting, Will, is that this story, right, it actually has two endings, right?
Speaker A:I don't know if people actually know this about Dr.
Speaker A:Faustus.
Speaker A:And you can look this up yourself, guys.
Speaker B:Are you talking about Marlo or Go.
Speaker B:Yeah, okay.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:So Marlo's doctor Faustus has two endings to it, right?
Speaker A:And he was actually shortly killed after he wrote this, by the way.
Speaker B:Stabbed in the eye.
Speaker A:Yes.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:It makes you wonder, right?
Speaker A:So the original ending to this has.
Speaker A:Before he's about to hand over his life to the devil because there's an actual clock.
Speaker A:Like, you have this XYZ amount of years, an angel visits him and tries to convince him that you can get out of it, even at the last second, right?
Speaker A:And what he does is, I'm gonna actually have to look up exactly what happens here.
Speaker A:But this was removed, right?
Speaker A:Like, this hope part was removed shortly after Marlow's death to try to placate modern audience, even modern audiences, back in the 16th century, right?
Speaker A:So what you have is understanding that everything works at this transactional value is really what you're doing is you're signing away a part of your soul.
Speaker A:You're signing away a part of who you are.
Speaker A:You're signing away your authenticity.
Speaker A:You're signing away your covenant.
Speaker A:You're signing away your relationship with God.
Speaker A:Like, hey, and.
Speaker A:And you see so many people now.
Speaker A:The devil has gotten.
Speaker A:So everything is like a fian deal, right?
Speaker A:Like, in a way, right?
Speaker A:The way that modern society is like, hey, you can go to college and get the job, but you can't have kids, right?
Speaker A:You can, right?
Speaker A:Did you sign the contract?
Speaker A:Right?
Speaker A:You can get this wealth, but you have to commit all of these evil things to do it.
Speaker A:You have to get xyz.
Speaker A:You can get this sort of engagement as a Christian influencer.
Speaker A:But you got to troll these people and misrepresent them, right?
Speaker A:So what you're really doing is you're forming a Faustian deal with the devil when you do this.
Speaker A:You're signing a part of you.
Speaker A:You're part of your soul away to the devil when you do this.
Speaker A:And so you need to understand.
Speaker A:So how do you.
Speaker A:How do you do this transit.
Speaker A:So part of like belief in Christ itself is the truth, Right.
Speaker A:So you even having it as like mental armor.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:It's like, I think like Paul talks about as like actual armor.
Speaker A:It actually is like mental, real spiritual armor.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Armor of God.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:That allows you to be able to operate at a certain level where you aren't manipulated by this, like, fear and anger and these.
Speaker A:Which.
Speaker A:Where the Faustian deal comes in to do xyz.
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker A:So that's one of the ways that you could just belief in God itself and you can build this life eventually too.
Speaker A:Like even like a foundation.
Speaker A:Like one of the things is like one of the best things that you ever could tell an evil person is that you're not interested.
Speaker B:Okay.
Speaker A:It's actually really hilarious.
Speaker A:Like, you can tell people who are looking to make a Faustian deal with you that you don't really care.
Speaker A:Okay?
Speaker A:This takes away all of the air from Satan instantly.
Speaker A:So, like, you know, if somebody.
Speaker A:So I always talked about top line and these tweets never do well, but I always put them out there because they're like kind of coded, like, build yourself a life that is unbiable from Satan.
Speaker A:Okay?
Speaker B:That's right.
Speaker A:It starts with God, by the way.
Speaker A:It starts with your covenant with God.
Speaker A:Right?
Speaker A:But there's other things that you can do.
Speaker A:Solidify yourself, participate in church, act moral, financially responsible.
Speaker A:All of these things will help you build a life that is, in a way, that is, makes you unbiable from Satan.
Speaker A:So, you know, when Satan comes to you, he's like, well, what's the price?
Speaker A:Right, Right.
Speaker A:So, like, what's the price?
Speaker A:But if you live a certain way of living, you're going to be basically making yourself unbiable, right?
Speaker A:And so then you can have your own opinions, you can be authentic.
Speaker A:These are the people that I find interesting in the world, by the way.
Speaker A:Like, you might.
Speaker A:Some people might find Madonna interesting.
Speaker A:Why?
Speaker A:She just sold out.
Speaker A:So you're just watching a Satan's puppet, like, or whoever, like whatever pop influencer is the fake thing of the day.
Speaker A:Taylor Mift or whatever Swift, whatever thing is Taylor Swift.
Speaker A:Like, who cares?
Speaker A:You're Just watching someone who's sold out.
Speaker A:And so none of their.
Speaker A:What appeals to me and what I find interesting as a person is authenticity and real people and real conversations.
Speaker A:And I almost like, seek people like Will Spencer who haven't, like, done this kind of thing because you can, you can sense their authenticity from there, especially when you've been there as well.
Speaker A:So when I, when I talk, I think it's really important to build a life that becomes unbiable.
Speaker A:And again, one of the things that you could do if you want to, like, frustrate evil and just say, hey, I don't care.
Speaker A:Oh, you don't want more?
Speaker A:You don't want to have XYZ and all these things and da, da, da, da, da.
Speaker A:No, I'm fine.
Speaker A:I already, I do.
Speaker A:I, I.
Speaker A:Every single day I wake up, my life is beautiful.
Speaker A:I'm grateful for the life that I have.
Speaker A:Right?
Speaker A:Just telling Satan that himself makes him cower in fear.
Speaker B:Well, the, the important thing about that is you can't actually, because a lot of people would say, I will, I will sell out to make myself unbiable, right?
Speaker B:And then, and then I'll cross that finish line and then that's when I'll be unbiable.
Speaker B:I've seen, I've seen this countless times, you know, particularly interacting with some guys on Instagram years ago when I was more active on that platform.
Speaker B:Like, well, I'm going to build up my platform really big and then I'm going to start talking about Christianity.
Speaker B:It's like, no, that's not how this works.
Speaker B:Like, you're just not suddenly going to find the courage to step out on stage and to say the thing that you've been wanting to say the whole time.
Speaker B:When everything is on the line, you're just, you're probably not going to find that courage.
Speaker B:The only way to do it, this is what I decide for myself, is I'm going to talk about this every step of the way and I will get where I get.
Speaker B:If I get nowhere, then I get nowhere, right?
Speaker B:But I'm not going to say like, oh, I'm going to get my platform to, you know, X hundreds of thousands, and then I'm going to do this big reveal, like, hey, everyone, surprise, I'm a Christian.
Speaker B:I don't think it actually works that way.
Speaker B:You have to have, you have to be of integrity every step along the way.
Speaker B:Otherwise how can you know you've ever gotten anywhere?
Speaker B:Like you said, like, the people who, who get trapped in this mode of engagement through outrage that they do the outrage baiting.
Speaker B:Their reward is that now they have outraged followers all the time who need more red meat thrown at them.
Speaker B:And as soon as you try to say something positive, that's like, that's not what we're here for.
Speaker B:We want the rage bait.
Speaker B:It's like, well, I don't feel like doing that today.
Speaker B:Well, sorry, then we'll go somewhere else.
Speaker B:Those people are profoundly fickle, by the way.
Speaker B:But if you start out by speaking from a position of truth and integrity, every step of the way, the people who come to you are the ones who are going to stick around.
Speaker B:And it may not be as many as those attracted by the outrage bait, but you know that the ones there are loyal for who you are as opposed to who you're pretending to be.
Speaker A:Right?
Speaker A:I think that that's the way that.
Speaker A:That's the way that I run my.
Speaker A:I think has been one of my best business decisions to be able to do something like this.
Speaker A:So that's why.
Speaker A:And it is like, oh, well, certain people aren't gonna like it.
Speaker A:Well, then they can deal with it.
Speaker A:Right?
Speaker A:Well, then, oh, well, it's a big Internet.
Speaker A:That's how.
Speaker A:Yeah, like, that's.
Speaker A:But, but that's the beauty of the Internet, Will, is that really, if you are authentic, like with all of the fake influencers that are out there and all of the fake people who are out there, the authenticity is going to shine through.
Speaker A:Okay?
Speaker A:So, like, one of our mantras in master class is that you, when you're building your business online, you're doing everything from a.
Speaker A:We're.
Speaker A:You're.
Speaker A:You're building a business for life.
Speaker A:Okay?
Speaker A:You're not doing.
Speaker A:You're.
Speaker A:You're.
Speaker A:You're getting people.
Speaker A:You're.
Speaker A:You're building lifelong coin to them.
Speaker A:Or like, you know what I'm saying?
Speaker B:Right?
Speaker A:You don't do that by abusing your audience.
Speaker A:You do that.
Speaker A:You do all of the right things by creating authentic content that people love, engaging with your audience, being a man of the people, being truthful, making your content your life.
Speaker A:If you ever release some kind of, like, product or offer or you sell something online, it needs to be really, really, really, really good so that people are like, wow, you actually really care about your audience.
Speaker A:And so that's.
Speaker A:That's the way that I've operate.
Speaker A:And I know there's some people in the chat that are like, that's cool.
Speaker A:The.
Speaker A:There's some people out here that are like, oh, they think social media has been in.
Speaker A:That social media has been A net negative because human beings are, are bad people.
Speaker A:Okay?
Speaker A:So the way that I want to.
Speaker A:Social media itself isn't bad.
Speaker A:Like, I have used social media because I'm aware of what I do and I'm like really hyper aware of it to do good things for myself.
Speaker A:And hopefully I have done it to like get people to go to church and read the Bible more often and be more interested in faith and they can help better themselves in life.
Speaker A:Your social media, like your take on it, is more of a reflection on what you consume online.
Speaker A:Okay, so if I consume all of like these like rage baity people, the algo is going to continually feed those for you.
Speaker A:Can I talk a little bit about how the algo actually really works?
Speaker A:Okay, do it.
Speaker A:The algorithm was designed by people who are some of the smartest people in the world and have gotten paid million billions of dollars really to design an algorithm that keeps people addicted and looking, looking.
Speaker A:So this has actually been studied for a lot longer than people think.
Speaker A: Back in like around: Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker A:Like slot machines.
Speaker A:The way that the timeline really works is to keep you sitting there like someone who is playing the slot machines at Vegas in an infant, clicking a button, continually seeing there.
Speaker A:If you ever watch those people in Vegas, they just hit the thing.
Speaker A:They pull the thing again.
Speaker A:They pull the thing again.
Speaker A:Pull the thing.
Speaker A:It's actually called jackpot theory.
Speaker A:It's like an idea that is inside from people who, who built the algorithm.
Speaker A:Now, the way the algo works is this.
Speaker A:It's there to keep you designed on the timeline as long as possible.
Speaker A:Keep streaming, to keep you on your phone for as long as possible.
Speaker A:So the posts get shown to other people.
Speaker A:Right outside of your circle and outside of your bubble are the ones that people are spending the most time on.
Speaker A:Now there's also another component that most people don't talk about, right?
Speaker A:This is that it's never going to be something that gets you to be fulfilled for that reason.
Speaker A:Okay?
Speaker A:It's always going to make you thinking, I need one more hit, right?
Speaker A:And that's the whole jackpot thing.
Speaker A:Like in Vegas, the way the slots work, it's like, oh, I was so close.
Speaker B:Ooh.
Speaker A:Like, and so the same thing happens to you when you're scrolling the timeline.
Speaker A:Like, oh, man.
Speaker A:Ooh, that's good.
Speaker A:Oh, I need another.
Speaker A:I need another anger hit.
Speaker A:I need another thing.
Speaker A:So none of the content that's ever shown to you online is going to make you think like, Fully spiritually fulfilled.
Speaker A:That's what you have the Bible for anyway.
Speaker A:That's what you have church for anyway.
Speaker A:Okay?
Speaker A:It's always there to keep you there, engaged, on your phone, in like a zombified state and spiritually unfulfilled.
Speaker A:Okay?
Speaker A:Now, how do you use content as social media for the right way?
Speaker A:Well, then you need to understand that social media is really a big networking site, okay?
Speaker A:It's not a content driven site, it's a networking site.
Speaker A:X is what we tell is a networking site and you use it to meet people, to make connections and so that you can better your own life off of the platform.
Speaker A:So one of the reasons why I'm even on this call today is because I met Will.
Speaker A:I think Will responded to one of my emails.
Speaker A:So I have an email list, right?
Speaker A:I remember this because I was driving my car, my wife wrote the email, I was voice dictating it, right?
Speaker A:It's like Will Spencer was messaging me.
Speaker A:You were asking me about create published profit that we were doing and I was like, will, like, respond back to this guy.
Speaker A:I've heard of this guy before, right?
Speaker A:Send him a message.
Speaker A:Big name, right?
Speaker A:And then we're doing a podcast and now we're doing this.
Speaker A:And now you have a lot bigger audience because you've been doing the stuff that we've been talking about.
Speaker B:That's right.
Speaker A:What you have here is because what we do is we instill the right.
Speaker A:X is a networking site.
Speaker A:Social media is there for you to be social and meet people so that you.
Speaker A:And so that's why it's really important about creating the right kinds of content.
Speaker A:Because your content is a conduit to another person.
Speaker A:It's a bridge to another person.
Speaker A:It's going to attract the right kinds of people.
Speaker A:Okay?
Speaker A:And most people are on there, they're just thinking like, it's about the likes, it's about the retweets, it's about the rate, the impressions and stuff like that.
Speaker A:Sure.
Speaker A:Like maybe from an algorithmic standpoint, but what's more important is the type of people that you're meeting and getting people to DM you and meeting.
Speaker A:So that's one of the reasons why we run a community called Masterclass, Masterclass247.com is because what we do there from behind the scenes is then we all get to know each other.
Speaker A:We do live calls, we help each other build, we take.
Speaker A:We have people helping each other out, creating content, meeting people.
Speaker A:And that's what social media is about.
Speaker A:Like I told you we met in real life will like we get, right?
Speaker A:You should be using social media to meet people that will change your life off of the platform.
Speaker A:So if you're using it for that reason reason, then you're using it for the right reasons.
Speaker A:The only problem is 99% of people aren't using social media for the right reasons.
Speaker A:I should write an email about this.
Speaker A:Now that I think about it, you should.
Speaker A:So, yeah, that's what you have is just so many people who are thinking like it's about getting the most views.
Speaker A:I saw Mr.
Speaker A:Beast.
Speaker A:Oh, he is so awesome.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:But you can be using social media for a lot of other reasons as well.
Speaker A:And it starts with making connections with people far more.
Speaker A:Why do people go to college, guys?
Speaker A:Why do people really go to college?
Speaker A:Do they go for the piece of paper or for like this particular class?
Speaker A:You don't really actually learn anything in the classes.
Speaker A:I'm going to be honest with you.
Speaker A:Right, like you don't learn how to be a teacher by taking education classes in a room.
Speaker A:You learn how to be a teacher by being a teacher.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:And this is like pretty much with like, you don't learn until you're actually fielding live fire in your field.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:And so it doesn't really do a great job of preparing you for what you're going to be doing.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:I think college, by the way, could be done in one year.
Speaker A:Really.
Speaker A:Just basically here's all the things get out.
Speaker A:Okay, but that'd be bad for the bottom line anyway.
Speaker A:What you really go to college for and why you need a degree is because you want the prestige and you want the association with the people who went to that school for the network, but you don't need it anymore.
Speaker A:You can just skip the line and go right on social media.
Speaker A:And the quality of your ideas decides who your network is.
Speaker A:Okay?
Speaker A:So that's the power of social media.
Speaker A:You can build whatever you deserve on there.
Speaker B:So, okay, so question for you.
Speaker B:So.
Speaker B:So I think, and that's been the greatest benefit that I've had not just for, not just for X, but also my podcast.
Speaker B:Like I've, I've joked for years, since the first year I was doing it, that if you contact a random famous or successful person, you say, do you want to talk on the phone for an hour?
Speaker B:They'll say no.
Speaker B:But if you contact them and say, do you want to talk on the phone for an hour?
Speaker B:And I'll record it and put it on the Internet, they say yes.
Speaker B:So that's, that's been my observation with, with podcasts in general.
Speaker B:And X has been fantastic, a fantastic networking site in so many different ways.
Speaker B:But I think that there's a mindset out there which certainly I've participated in and which I see around on the timeline all the time, which is part of why I've lost a lot of interest, is there's a perspective that X is combat, that it's, that it's warfare, that it's.
Speaker B:Maybe it's war for public perception, maybe it's ideological warfare, as in the war of ideas.
Speaker B:Is that still true?
Speaker B:Is that a good thing?
Speaker A:Yes, there is.
Speaker A:There is a ideological war of ideas, but it's won by networking.
Speaker A:Okay, okay.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:So a lot of people think like, hey, I'm going to write the angriest tweet and make the others.
Speaker A:What you're really doing is you're making them double and triple down.
Speaker A:Look, I understand how to persuade people.
Speaker A:I studied this for a long time.
Speaker A:It's one of the reasons why I've been able to get, be successful online.
Speaker A:But I'm going to tell you guys something.
Speaker A:You should never enter a conversation with a person.
Speaker A:Like, like what's the worst kinds of awkward conversation?
Speaker A:It's like those holiday dinners that you have.
Speaker A:It's like those Thanksgiving dinners, those Christmas dinners where you know, you have like the, the, the person in the family who has a lot of opinions.
Speaker A:You know what I'm saying?
Speaker A:You, everybody knows what I'm talking about.
Speaker A:They want to come over, they want to talk to you about politics.
Speaker A:It could be like extreme left wing or right wing or religion.
Speaker A:Or they want to tell you how what you're doing is as a bad person.
Speaker A:Right?
Speaker A:You've all experienced this before.
Speaker A:Why is it so bad?
Speaker A:Right?
Speaker A:Do any of those people ever wind up converting the other person to their world frame and worldview?
Speaker A:No, because they're argumentative and they're combative and they already look at you.
Speaker A:They don't come from a relationship perspective.
Speaker A:And so that's how many of you guys operate online with the same.
Speaker A:You're like the aunt, you're like the half drunken wine aunt at the family gathering online, right?
Speaker A:Just spewing your opinions out into the world and you look like an idiot.
Speaker A:Okay?
Speaker A:And so the problem is that you don't realize that you're actually repelling people from your ideas.
Speaker A:You're repelling people from, from Christianity because you don't look, you don't look good while you do it.
Speaker A:Right?
Speaker A:So here's a persuasion tip for you guys.
Speaker A:Who are listening never look to win an argument with somebody on the spot, ever, ever.
Speaker A:I never go to.
Speaker A:If I have a disagreement with somebody ideologically, I never go and say I'm going to have a conversation with them and during the.
Speaker A:By the time this conversation is over, they're going to agree with me 100%.
Speaker A:That's the incorrect way to get somebody to persuade to.
Speaker A:To see your worldview.
Speaker A:What I like to say is I'm going to hear them out, I'm going to understand where they are, and then maybe I'll say one or two things to them that will make them question their worldview when they're ready for it.
Speaker A:Okay, so, like, I can hear somebody like X.
Speaker A:I'm not going to specifically, like, name somebody right now or say something, but if somebody came to me with like, an app, okay, so let's say that somebody was like an extreme leftist.
Speaker A:We'll all agree on this one.
Speaker A:Like, and was like, public schools are like the greatest thing since sliced bread.
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker A:What I would say to them is like, wow, really?
Speaker A:Tell me about you.
Speaker A:I used to be a public school teacher.
Speaker A:Oh, wow.
Speaker A:20.
Speaker A:I did 20 years.
Speaker A:It's really tough.
Speaker A:I remember those teacher laws.
Speaker A:Tell me about what's going on.
Speaker A:You do so much good work and you work so hard.
Speaker A:I understand what it's worked.
Speaker A:Like, what it's worked be working 60, 70 hours per week.
Speaker A:But then I would tell them maybe a story about how I went to, like, Catholic school and how everything was so good in these schools because they believed in God.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:And then I would say, well, then there would be a fundamental.
Speaker A:I wouldn't say anything like, you know, I wouldn't, like, make them feel bad, but I would put, like, one or two ideas into their mind to make them look into what's going to happen in their own world.
Speaker A:And then, like, maybe they can see it.
Speaker A:And then, like, when that happens, it triggers in their mind and then they start to see things the way that I see it.
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker A:So that's kind of the way that you actually persuade people the right way.
Speaker A:It's like you give them one or two, like torpedoes, right?
Speaker A:Like, but you don't say anything.
Speaker A:You don't even make.
Speaker A:You just casually say it, right?
Speaker A:And then when they have to confront this into the.
Speaker A:When that situation triggers into the real world, maybe a month or two or maybe even six months after, they then think about what you said, and then that becomes their new frame.
Speaker A:So what you have is all of these idiots on the Internet just yelling and Screaming at each other.
Speaker A:And really what.
Speaker A:They're, they're not accomplishing anything.
Speaker A:They're actually not accomplishing anything.
Speaker A:Zero.
Speaker A:Other than maybe getting a few extra Elon bucks.
Speaker A:That's it.
Speaker A:And they're, they're act in.
Speaker A:In fact, they're probably repelling people from church, right?
Speaker A:Like, and confusing people.
Speaker A:I don't think that they're getting people into it.
Speaker B:No, no, it, it doesn't put, it doesn't put a good foot forward.
Speaker B:Now there are, there are individuals that are worth, that are worth engaging with in a contentious way.
Speaker B:And I think Jesus modeled that with the Pharisees, but the vast majority of the Jews walking around in Israel at the time were not themselves Pharisees.
Speaker B:And so you have to have a, you know, an apostle of false religion versus a refugee from false religion, and you have to identify who that person is.
Speaker B:And I think one of the problems that people can fall into is this belief that anyone who doesn't agree with me is opposed to me.
Speaker B:Right?
Speaker B:That's the aunt, whoever at Thanksgiving or whatever, who needs to engage with everyone because they're all her enemy.
Speaker B:And you can't think that way.
Speaker B:It's not, it's not that form of, of combat, at least not with Christianity in that way.
Speaker B:Because you're actually trying to win people over through confession and repentance, not through conquering them.
Speaker B:You can't conquer someone's heart from the outside.
Speaker A:I agree with you, Will.
Speaker A:And what you see is just basically like, you know, you're going to do.
Speaker A:You're going to feel.
Speaker A:If you're not this, that's it, you know, and again, you're not.
Speaker A:You're, you're.
Speaker A:If your goal is to do xyz, if your goal is to see more people reading the Bible, be Catholic or Christian or whatever, or going to church, whatever your goal is, if you're just going to yell and scream at the other side, that's not going to get people inside.
Speaker A:That's not going to get people to see your worldview.
Speaker A:In fact, it's going to do the opposite.
Speaker A:It's going to make them double and triple and quadruple down, right?
Speaker A:Like that's, it's like the, the Scott Adams talks about this, like the two worlds.
Speaker A:Two worlds.
Speaker A:Was it the two screens effect?
Speaker A:It's where you have people.
Speaker A:It's like if you.
Speaker A:Instead of cognitive, instead of triggering their cognitive dissonance, instead what you're doing is you're making them double, quadruple.
Speaker A:And this is why you see so many libs with such absurd values, right?
Speaker A:Like, and embracing many absurd worldviews because they have just hammered down in the same area again and again and again and again and again and again.
Speaker A:Because people haven't actually gone to them the right way and like, trying to persuade them to get over to the other side.
Speaker A:I think that's kind of hard for some people to hear, but like, basically just telling them that they're like stupid or a libtard or something like that isn't going to make a libtard go like, oh, I can't wait to be on the other side.
Speaker A:They're going to go, dude, do you see how rude those people are?
Speaker A:Maybe, maybe, maybe.
Speaker A:I know that they're the bad guys.
Speaker A:I know that they're the wrong people.
Speaker A:And I'll embrace whatever worldview because I know that they're bad.
Speaker A:I can just, I just know it, okay?
Speaker A:I just feel it and I know it.
Speaker A:Now I'm going to rationalize whatever fact, right?
Speaker A:Because that's going to allow me to keep this.
Speaker A:Because I know that they're wrong.
Speaker A:So, you know, people need to be careful about that, especially in Christianity, because you can repel people to a point where that they may think that they are on the right side of the fence.
Speaker A:They may believe, like, hey, you know, the last time I dealt with these kinds of people, they made me feel this certain way, or they told me that this was going to happen to me or X, Y, Z.
Speaker A:So you guys need to be careful with the way that you're engaging with not just other Christians, but with people who aren't Christian as well.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:There is a component of understanding the worldview that someone lives inside and coming to see.
Speaker B:Well, you see that pain point that you have right there.
Speaker B:There's a flaw in how you see reality that's causing that friction that's causing that pain.
Speaker B:Whether that be, are you, are you in pain in a relationship or business or something like that.
Speaker B:Part of that could be like, you see that belief, that belief is wrong and that wrong belief is running up against the world of truth.
Speaker B:And if you just get rid of that lie, if you get rid of that wrong belief, you'll see that everything goes better.
Speaker B:Instead of saying you're wrong, you're evil, etc.
Speaker B:Now look, there are bad people out there.
Speaker B:There are bad people with bad intentions who act, who do the wrong thing, you know, because they enjoy doing the wrong thing.
Speaker B:So I don't, I don't mean that, you know, there is that percentage of people who are genuinely to borrow Jordan Peterson's word, malevolent, right?
Speaker B:There are those people that are out there, but those are not the majority of people that we're going to interact with every day.
Speaker B:And so by.
Speaker B:By taking those glasses off, that this person is my enemy or this person, I'm in competition again, it's a transactional mindset, perhaps, where it's like, like the transactional mindset would say, like the.
Speaker B:The more that there is for you, the less that there is for me.
Speaker A:Let's talk about how the red pill does this, because I.
Speaker A:I can't wait to talk about the red.
Speaker A:There are.
Speaker A:There are many of you that are listening who are under the spell of the red pill, okay?
Speaker A:So if I wanted to.
Speaker A:So if I wanted to divide and conquer you, okay?
Speaker A:And remember, I studied, like, military.
Speaker A:The first thing I would do is I would make you afraid and fearful of the other side, okay?
Speaker A:And so red pill culture uses this so effectively, but they also do it by gaslighting you right off of the bat, okay?
Speaker A:So here's the gaslight, okay?
Speaker A:They go, you can.
Speaker A:You only have two options.
Speaker A:You have the blue pill, right?
Speaker A:You can be blue pill npc, or you can be accepting the truths of the reality.
Speaker A:Those are that we tell you that are true, by the way, okay?
Speaker A:And then, so here's your false dichotomy, by the way.
Speaker A:Let's take a look at that other side.
Speaker A:They're doing X, Y, Z, right?
Speaker A:Your only solution to this is to embrace the red pill.
Speaker A:We are not the Matrix.
Speaker A:This is how you get out of the Matrix, by the way.
Speaker A:Trust us.
Speaker A:We are not the Matrix.
Speaker A:This is what, this is what the red pill will tell you.
Speaker A:If I was the Matrix, the first thing I would tell you is that we weren't the Matrix, okay?
Speaker A:I'd be like, we're not the Matrix.
Speaker A:We are not the Matrix guys.
Speaker A:I.
Speaker A:We're not the Matrix.
Speaker A:And then so what you really have is you have a lot of young men embracing the red pill because they were put into the blue pill world of like, hey, we went to public school.
Speaker A:And like, I haven't seen a male figure in my.
Speaker A:My classes, and I didn't see a teacher, and I was raised without a father and all these xyz.
Speaker A:And then so they look to these red pill guys because they're the first solution to the problem that they created themselves.
Speaker A:And then, so what you have is a lot of these red pill guys.
Speaker A:This is what they don't understand is, like, we talked a lot about, like, Christ, Pill, right?
Speaker A:What you really need is blue pill and red pill.
Speaker A:It's like both like hands of the wizard of Oz, right?
Speaker A:It's like the light and the dark, right?
Speaker A:And then so what you have really is like, if you want to escape, if you really want to leave the.
Speaker A:The Matrix, is that you take the Christ pill, right?
Speaker A:You could take the red pill, but you're still ensnared by the Matrix.
Speaker A:If you want to embrace the truth, you accept Jesus Christ, okay?
Speaker A:You accept the truth.
Speaker A:And so what you have is you have so many people who are duped by believing, like, I got out of the Matrix, by being in the Matrix and getting all of.
Speaker A:By worshiping money and by doing all of these things.
Speaker A:But they don't realize is that the Matrix just chained them into the Matrix.
Speaker A:And what makes Christ so compelling is that that's why it says the way the truth and the life, right?
Speaker A:It's like this is the truth.
Speaker A: hrist knew about the red pill: Speaker A:Because he did.
Speaker A:Because he knew that they would say, hey, like, here's our false way to do it.
Speaker A:No, the.
Speaker A:The real way to do it is here.
Speaker A:And so you have these red pill guys.
Speaker A:They operate from a fear perspective.
Speaker A:Like, you can't trust women.
Speaker A:You can't trust.
Speaker A:Or, or you can't, right?
Speaker A:You can't trust women.
Speaker A:I don't again.
Speaker A:Now you have been preconditioned.
Speaker A:Now they put.
Speaker A:Planted a seed in your mind, right?
Speaker A:The next time you see a woman do something, you're now gonna.
Speaker A:The cognitive dissonance is gonna hit, right?
Speaker A:This is how good they are at persuasion.
Speaker A:They understand it at my level, right?
Speaker A:Like, you just implant this.
Speaker A:You can't trust women.
Speaker A:Oh, I trust women.
Speaker A:Oh, next time she breaks up with you, man, you'll see.
Speaker A:Six months from now, something happens, something bad happens to you.
Speaker A:You got to blame somebody.
Speaker A:You got to scapegoat somebody, right?
Speaker A:You can't take responsibility yourself.
Speaker A:So now you're looking for an easy answer to that.
Speaker A:Red pill culture is there to save you.
Speaker A:And so you have a lot of these guys.
Speaker A:I think the worst part about.
Speaker A:I am going to dunk, all right?
Speaker A:I'm going to take my.
Speaker A:I'm going to do it.
Speaker A:The saddest part about these guys is, like, they're older than me, right?
Speaker A:They're older than me and they are.
Speaker A:They're older than me, and they're leading the saddest lives.
Speaker A:So when I look at their lives, I Go.
Speaker A:I don't know.
Speaker A:To me, it's sad.
Speaker A:Okay, So I grew up, I lived in Miami for a while, okay.
Speaker A:Like, I lived in Miami for a while.
Speaker A:One of the saddest things is you would go to these clubs, right?
Speaker A:And then you would see like all of these older guys who are like in their 50s, right, sitting in the club, like still trying to pick up chicks and all of these things.
Speaker A:And like every, every younger person, what's running through their minds, like, this is so sad.
Speaker A:These people are so sad.
Speaker A:These red pill guys who are hustlers and are much older and they're still doing the same shtick because they can't come up with a third act, right?
Speaker A:Is really what it is, because they haven't accepted Christ.
Speaker A:Is that.
Speaker A:Could you go back?
Speaker A:Like, what is Andrew Tate going to be like when he's 65 years old?
Speaker B:I know.
Speaker A:Do you think he's really going to have any influence?
Speaker A:Of course he won't, because people are, people in their 20s are going to look at him like he's a sad dude.
Speaker B:Well, the next guy who comes along and takes his place, right?
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Like, it won't, the character won't be believable.
Speaker A:He's a literal living meme.
Speaker A:And so the character won't be believable.
Speaker A:It's like Elvis, right?
Speaker A:It's like fat Elvis, right?
Speaker A:And so like Tate is entering his fat Elvis phase right now and like he doesn't even realize it, where he becomes a meme upon the meme, right?
Speaker A:And you see this with a lot of celebrities who are worshiped and told they're gods, right?
Speaker A:This is true.
Speaker A:The danger of being told that you're a God and putting yourself on a pedestal, like all of these Tates and Taylor Swifts and Elvis's and the Beatles as well, it's like that ultimately they become caricatures of themselves, okay?
Speaker A:That's the danger of the actual Faustian deals, that you actually lose touch with reality itself.
Speaker A:And so you see these guys like Tate, right?
Speaker A:And so obviously they're not going to have any.
Speaker A:He was so irrelevant, Will, that he had to go on Nick Fuentes's election night pocket.
Speaker A:That's what Will.
Speaker A:That's, that's, that's where they were at.
Speaker A:They were like, hey, I'm going to go.
Speaker A:Nick Fuentes on election night while Trump was winning is like, I'm going to have to go and get Andrew Tate on here to be remaining relevant.
Speaker A:Being anti matrix is a pot is a, is an option in the matrix.
Speaker A:No well, that could be.
Speaker A:That could be particularly true.
Speaker A:Right?
Speaker A:But if you understand when the Matrix was constructed, right?
Speaker A:Which is actually in the Bible when they explain when the Matrix was constructed, the mental matrix is that you have a.
Speaker A:You have this.
Speaker A:You have.
Speaker A:This is why Jesus says he's the way.
Speaker A:The truth and the life that is really the.
Speaker A:Is.
Speaker A:Is.
Speaker A:Do you fear death?
Speaker A:Right?
Speaker A:This goes back to.
Speaker A:My other question is like, people who really fear people who fear death are stuck in the Matrix, right?
Speaker A:I don't.
Speaker A:Do you ever see the.
Speaker A:It was one of my favorite scenes is Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade, okay.
Speaker A:Where he's in.
Speaker B:Where you're going.
Speaker A:You know exactly where I'm going.
Speaker A:I love this scene so much.
Speaker A:Go watch this one scene.
Speaker A:It's a great movie.
Speaker A:And so he had.
Speaker A:There's a scene where Indiana Jones and he's looking for the chalice, right?
Speaker A:The Holy Grail.
Speaker A:And he goes inside underneath the reach of Venice.
Speaker A:And so there's like a society that protects the Holy Grail.
Speaker A:And so they find him and, you know, they get in a fight and, like, they're on these boats and, like, he corners the lead head guy of this and the dude's like, kill me.
Speaker A:I don't care.
Speaker A:My soul's already with God.
Speaker A:And like, this is really the way that you need to operate with Satan.
Speaker A:It's like, whatever, I have no fear.
Speaker A:And then so, like that, like, hits Indy so hard that he's just like, dude, he just lets him go.
Speaker A:Like, he's just like, whoa.
Speaker A:This is an authentic real dude, right?
Speaker A:This is an unfast.
Speaker A:This guy cannot be partake in a Faustian deal.
Speaker A:This guy does not have a transactional mindset.
Speaker A:He's willing to lay it all on the line.
Speaker A:And again, you know, so you see a lot of these people who are like these red pill influencers.
Speaker A:It's like they're trying to get you addicted to hate.
Speaker A:They're trying to get you addicted to fear.
Speaker A:They're trying to get you to.
Speaker A:And in all of this ways that they're really just.
Speaker A:Again, it's like the neuroticism of Seinfeld.
Speaker A:You're seeing, like, people just basically are just being conditioned to live these little lives where they just fear death itself and don't even, like, contemplate their existence in their soul.
Speaker A:Sad.
Speaker B: opular basically overnight in: Speaker B:And, you know, of course he's become a subject of discussion again.
Speaker B:And all he does is have men jump into the other ditch of the matrix materialism, you know, promiscuity, right?
Speaker B:Arrogance, ego.
Speaker B:And he will say, don't get married, don't have kids, you know, or don't be a, you know, sire children, but don't be a, don't be a father to them, don't die to yourself.
Speaker B:Actually raise up righteous kids.
Speaker B:And it's so impoverished and it's so empty and that is literally the whole manosphere world.
Speaker B:It was, it's a dead end.
Speaker B:Like all of these influencers who are young and fit and awesome and they're talking about, you know, all of these, all of these lifestyles and ways of living, ways of being.
Speaker B:It's like, bro, you're going to be 65 or 71 day and then, and then what?
Speaker B:How much TRT can you take, right?
Speaker B:Are you going to be the 70 year old gray dude who's juicing on steroids still?
Speaker B:And a lot of guys will be.
Speaker B:It's like the life is sterile.
Speaker B:It's ultimately very sterile and very deeply impoverished.
Speaker B:And when you show, when you, when you point that out, they get really mad because they have images of themselves of being this like Nietzschean Ubermensch, law of the jungle.
Speaker B:I'm the biggest monster in the jungle or whatever.
Speaker B:It's like, well, someone else younger and more powerful is going to come along and take your stuff.
Speaker B:And that's what happens.
Speaker B:That's what the law of the jungle leads to, always.
Speaker B:And the flaw in the mindset is that they always say that the strongest will survive, but then when someone stronger comes along and takes their stuff, they don't say, yes, the triumph of my ideology.
Speaker B:They complain.
Speaker A:It's not the strong, it's not the strongest that survive, by the way.
Speaker A:It's the one that's the most adaptable.
Speaker A:It's the one that's most flexible.
Speaker A:I just want to say that, right?
Speaker A:So like in the, and I agree with you, they always have like this, this mentality where it's, you know, and that's, and that's what they're gonna get.
Speaker A:By the way, for somebody who studies social media for a living, you should always be immediately cautious of people who just happen to rise out of nowhere.
Speaker B:Okay, Amen.
Speaker A:Like, like for, like.
Speaker A:I mean, I'm sure that some people, most people there, like, they have enough sense who are listening on this one to be a little suspicious of people who just, oh my gosh, they just became the new thing and now we all need to talk about this person.
Speaker A:It's all done for a reason, right?
Speaker A:So, you know, when you have all of these people who are.
Speaker A:You should meet them with suspicion.
Speaker A:Right?
Speaker A:I think.
Speaker A:I think that that would.
Speaker A:Is.
Speaker A:Is.
Speaker A:Is.
Speaker A:Is the.
Speaker A:The prudent take to have.
Speaker A:This is just somebody who understands how social media works.
Speaker A:I would be extremely cautious.
Speaker B:So, like, the hawk to a girl, you know, that's a great example.
Speaker B:Where did she come from?
Speaker B:She was the.
Speaker B:She was the biggest thing in the world.
Speaker B:And then what happens?
Speaker B:She did a rug pull meme coin.
Speaker B:Like, why is this person successful?
Speaker B:Like, okay, sure, you said a funny thing on the street one day, fine, right?
Speaker B:But then there was this moment where it's like, okay, now's about the time where it should die out.
Speaker B:And then it rocketed to, like, a podcast and all this different stuff.
Speaker B:It's like, is anyone, like, paying attention to how weird this is and how fake this is now feeling?
Speaker B:But so many people are not critical enough of what they're seeing through their screens, and they just believe everything that.
Speaker A:They see is real.
Speaker A:That's why this is.
Speaker A:This is.
Speaker A:This.
Speaker A:We mentioned this.
Speaker A:It's like, I saw it on a screen.
Speaker A:It has to be real.
Speaker A:This is how.
Speaker A:This is how.
Speaker A:This is how the whole Covid situation can happen.
Speaker A:This is how you can convince people to.
Speaker A:When they see it on a screen, they see it on that big tv.
Speaker A:It must be real because I saw it on the tv, right?
Speaker A:And so you have all of these people who are seeing it on a screen on social media now, and, you know, these other people saying that it's real.
Speaker A:Of course they believe it's real because they're just so conditioned to just believe whatever they see on their magic screen, you know?
Speaker A:Oh, wow, this made me laugh.
Speaker A:See, this is.
Speaker A:I just tell you, this is how people really are.
Speaker A:It made, like, Hawk tua made me laugh.
Speaker A:I thought it was really funny.
Speaker A:And now because they laughed, it's real, okay?
Speaker A:And now because they connected a feeling to it, the feeling is a conduit to making it rationalize it in their mind.
Speaker A:So now when it's like, like, oh, now she has a podcast.
Speaker A:She'll make me laugh again.
Speaker A:Oh, she's so silly, right?
Speaker A:You know, so you have people who are like, so, like, how did these people become popular?
Speaker A:It's because they.
Speaker A:People actually think it's legitimate because they have emotional connection to them.
Speaker A:You'd be shocked at how people have, like, this is what I have, like, no emotional connections to celebrities, by the way.
Speaker A:Most of these, of course, it's like, you met them in real life, they would, like, be kind of disgusted that you would even, like, worship them.
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker A:Like, it's true.
Speaker A:So I have, like, no emotional connection.
Speaker A:So whenever I called out, like, last year, I had a viral tweet, right?
Speaker A:It was called, like, us versus them.
Speaker A:Oh, man.
Speaker A:Like, I almost want to, like, pull the tweet up because it was so big.
Speaker A:I called out, like, Taylor Swift.
Speaker A:This is one of my favorite tweets of all time.
Speaker A:Because this one got 5 million views or something like that banger.
Speaker A:But no, no, it only got 300 likes.
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker A:Oh, it was like, my most.
Speaker A:Yeah, 5 million views, 300 likes.
Speaker B:Okay, well, how many comments?
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Oh, yeah.
Speaker A:And it's so hilarious because it was just me speaking the truth.
Speaker A:And, like, people couldn't really handle this kind of cognitive difference.
Speaker A:Them watching the super bowl, getting drunk, wearing a jersey with another man's name on it, participating in a satanic ritual, us going to mask, wearing dress clothes, praising God, worshiping Jesus, spending the day with loved ones and family.
Speaker A:And at the end it goes, which one are you choosing?
Speaker A:Right, that's the tweet.
Speaker A:Right?
Speaker A:And so this is, like, my least, like, tweet of all time.
Speaker A:It's one of my favorite tweets of all time because it instilled, like, it hit them with such a cognitive dissonance.
Speaker A:And by the way, I personally did this before the super bowl, like, hours before.
Speaker A:Like, three hours before.
Speaker A:Because.
Speaker B:Can you share your screen, by the way?
Speaker B:I want to.
Speaker B:Can you share the screen?
Speaker A:Yeah, but, like, we can.
Speaker A:Yeah, you can.
Speaker A:You can see that.
Speaker A:So actually, wait, hold up.
Speaker A:Yeah, I got too much stuff going on here.
Speaker A:But you have the.
Speaker A:You have the.
Speaker A:You have that tweet, right?
Speaker A:And so, yeah, you.
Speaker A:You.
Speaker A:The thing is, is about why that tweet did so well is people see themselves inside the celebrity.
Speaker A:Like, they see themselves, right?
Speaker A:They see themselves in Travis, Kelsey and Taylor Swift.
Speaker A:Like, they identify.
Speaker A:They identify with them, which is so sad.
Speaker A:It's like, you know, why.
Speaker A:Why would another man, right?
Speaker A:Or anybody have any interest in any of these things?
Speaker A:Like, don't you have anything going on in your life that's more interesting?
Speaker A:Like, I do.
Speaker A:And me going to church is more.
Speaker A:Me going to church is more interesting than watching the Super Bowl.
Speaker B:That's right.
Speaker B:If you don't have.
Speaker B:If you don't have anything interesting enough going on in your life so that what you're seeing on your screen seduces you into being more engaged with other people's lives than your own, you're doing something wrong Now, I don't have a problem with watching sports or watching movies.
Speaker B:It's where it becomes an obsession.
Speaker B:It's where people live out their lives vicariously through the performance of a sports team or an athlete or an actor or a musician.
Speaker B:That's the part where people give their.
Speaker B:Their sovereignty away to the lives of these other people who don't know them, who are happy to take the attention, take the money, take the engagement, et cetera, in this parasitic way.
Speaker B:And that has to be broken to get people engaged in their own lives.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:Just not.
Speaker B:Not even spiritually.
Speaker B:That is.
Speaker B:That is a huge part of it.
Speaker B:But also just like, what do you have going on or not going on that you're so invested in what's going on with Taylor Swift?
Speaker B:She's not you.
Speaker B:Like, you like, what?
Speaker B:What do you have nothing that you're invested enough in to protect that you give your identity away to someone who's nothing like you and will never meet you.
Speaker B:That celebrity infatuation is a very strange phenomenon.
Speaker B:Very strange.
Speaker B:Look, it happens in politics, too.
Speaker B:Like, I don't mean to just say it's sports and music.
Speaker B:You see it with politicians all the time also, right?
Speaker A:And this is one of the reasons why it's like, they.
Speaker A:Politicians can get away with whatever they want.
Speaker A:That's right.
Speaker A:It's because they just, you know, it's like the halo effect.
Speaker A:It's like, oh, well, you know, I like, look, I voted for Trump, okay?
Speaker A:I encourage people to do it as well.
Speaker A:But there are things that I'm already like, hey, maybe we.
Speaker A:You should.
Speaker A:It's okay to question.
Speaker A:It's.
Speaker A:I don't question Trump because he is so good that nobody should question him.
Speaker A:Already you're falling like, give me.
Speaker A:He's not like, do.
Speaker A:I don't see him regularly attending church and reading the Bible.
Speaker A:Like, if he was doing that, maybe I'd give him a little bit of slack.
Speaker A:Right?
Speaker A:But.
Speaker A:But perhaps, like, I don't see him with, like, you know, there are a lot of things that I agree with him with, obviously, like, three times, okay?
Speaker A:So I'm not sitting here saying, like, I don't think he's good, but I'm saying that it's not okay to just let politicians do whatever they want.
Speaker A:It's unhealthy.
Speaker A:It is unhealthy.
Speaker A:In fact, one of the reasons why I was telling Christians and you and I were doing this against all of it, there were other influencers that were like, no, they're gonna sell out as soon as they get in.
Speaker A:And so, and so, and xyz, I said, no, you need to vote for them, show up, embed yourself in the party.
Speaker A:And then when they do, the first thing you need to do is call them out.
Speaker A:That's what you need to do.
Speaker A:You don't run the other way.
Speaker A:You go right at it, okay?
Speaker A:And one of the things is that you're, you're, you're, you're giving away your power, right?
Speaker A:And we see a real spiritual battle going inside of the Republican Party right now.
Speaker A:Like on Christmas Eve, we had that whole thing that was going on or Christmas Day.
Speaker A:You know what I'm talking about?
Speaker A:The whole.
Speaker B:Exactly.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:The whole HB1 visa thing.
Speaker A:As soon as I saw that, I put my glass of wine down and I said, let's go.
Speaker A:Right?
Speaker A:So, you know, that's what you got.
Speaker A:Like you need.
Speaker A:So.
Speaker A:But look at, look at what happened right there.
Speaker A:There was a big lesson, right?
Speaker A:There was such a pushback on that, right?
Speaker A:There was such a pushback that.
Speaker A:What's his name, the Vivek guy?
Speaker A:That guy.
Speaker A:I can't figure out why they even put him, give him a platform.
Speaker A:Vivek is, was immediately like, you're out.
Speaker A:Okay?
Speaker A:Oh, and then we're going to rethink about this and we're going to talk about this and we're going to change the direction, right?
Speaker A:Because there was such an immediate.
Speaker A:Don't think, don't black pill.
Speaker A:Don't think that you don't have influence.
Speaker A:Don't think that you don't have.
Speaker A:That's what they want you to think.
Speaker A:Don't think that they're.
Speaker A:Listen, at the end of the day, these are.
Speaker A:Politicians are very vain, okay?
Speaker A:Politicians care what people think about them.
Speaker A:And so if they know that you care and that you have, your opinion of them has greatly changed or has lessened because of xyz.
Speaker A:And then you're going to tell other people about it, then they will ultimately care as well, because they care about themselves, okay?
Speaker A:It's common sense.
Speaker A:So don't think that you can't have a pushback on all of these things.
Speaker A:In fact, every single one of you is listening should push back 10, 10 times harder.
Speaker A:Because the soul of the Republican Party is at stake during this.
Speaker A:During the next four years.
Speaker B:Oh, yeah?
Speaker A:Which one is it going to be?
Speaker A:Who is going to lead the Republican Party if you don't show up?
Speaker A:It will be claimed by people.
Speaker A:Don't you.
Speaker A:You will not like the results.
Speaker A:Okay, go ahead.
Speaker B:You know what's so interesting about that is I remember, I think it was probably before the election or immediately after it, and there was all this talk about LGBT and.
Speaker B:And all this different stuff going on in the party.
Speaker B:And that's been a big thing.
Speaker B:It's like, it's a symptom of Christless conservatism.
Speaker B:What actually are our principles where.
Speaker B:Our principles are where society was at 20 years ago.
Speaker B:But of course, as time keeps rolling, you know, when things keep getting more liberal, that if you keep rolling it back to 20 years, suddenly you find yourself like, well, you know, transgenderism in the Republican Party is fine versus saying, well, no, we actually stand for a set of transcendent principles.
Speaker B:And that is the truly conservative position.
Speaker B:And it's funny because I think since the election, a lot of that crisis conservatism has kind of evaporated, or at least in the public eye, it seems like there's been a much stronger push for much more rooted values.
Speaker A:I do.
Speaker A:I do think some of that, though you did see that with the HB1 visas.
Speaker A:I do think, like, a move was made and it got shot so quickly.
Speaker A:I do think that that could actually be like, a little bit of the trick itself.
Speaker A:Like, you're kind.
Speaker A:We're kind of seeing like.
Speaker A:Like, you know what I'm trying to say here?
Speaker A:It's like, oh, now this.
Speaker A:And, yeah, now squirrel.
Speaker A:Now talk about this other xyz, this conspiracy theory that we're going to tell you to talk about right now.
Speaker A:So you have all of these, you know, you could have like, the left hand trying to distract.
Speaker A:Listen, just look, this is why it's so important that you bring as many people to church as possible.
Speaker A:This is why it's important that you get so many believing in Jesus Christ and understanding the foundation of God and his morals.
Speaker A:Okay?
Speaker A:Because the more you want, like, I want everybody right now.
Speaker A:Here's an exercise.
Speaker A:Imagine what our country would be like if 99.9% of people in the United States believed in Jesus Christ and were Christian.
Speaker A:What kind of.
Speaker A:What kind of community would we have Be pretty amazing.
Speaker A:It would be pretty amazing.
Speaker A:Wouldn't.
Speaker A:Would be pretty amazing if 99.9% of people attended church every Sunday.
Speaker A:What do you think our public schools would be like?
Speaker A:What do you think our roads would look like?
Speaker A:Do you think we would be declaring war and having all of these wars all around the world?
Speaker A:What do you think it would look like if.
Speaker A:If.
Speaker A:If our country truly believed in Jesus Christ?
Speaker A:Right, Everybody, that's.
Speaker B:I don't know that people can't imagine.
Speaker A:That that's the real solution.
Speaker A:That's the real solution.
Speaker A:I'm just telling you that's the real solution.
Speaker B:Well, and if they thought covenantally.
Speaker B:But I.
Speaker B:I see that as kind of.
Speaker B:That's part of it.
Speaker B:Yeah, exactly.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:If.
Speaker B:If people thought more about their responsibilities and commitments to each other and whether they wanted to be part of that or not.
Speaker B:And I think the transactional mindset has extended so far into society where people just think, well, what can I get out of the situation as opposed to what do I have to give?
Speaker B:What are my mutual obligations?
Speaker B:And not having the mutual obligations be defined by some obscure philosopher.
Speaker B:The scripture tells us what our obligations are to each other, and we have to be called to fulfill them.
Speaker B:And I think that would make such an enormous difference versus, you know, I lived in San Francisco for a while.
Speaker B:Anonymous faces walking around, disconnected from each other's lives, like, you know, face buried in their screen.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker A:Look like if it was 99 Christian.
Speaker B:It would be the beautiful city that.
Speaker A:It thinks it is, San Francisco.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:It would be that utopia that they try to portray the fake utopia in, like, Star Trek, you know, that's right.
Speaker A:Like, oh, yeah, you know, San Francisco is the capital of, like, the Federation and start.
Speaker A:Like, it's unbelievable.
Speaker A:Right?
Speaker A:And you could just.
Speaker A:That's the result.
Speaker A:What it is right now is the result of a godless society.
Speaker B:Okay.
Speaker B:Oh, tell.
Speaker B:Tell me about it.
Speaker A:And so what?
Speaker A:Right?
Speaker A:So that's the real solution to our problems, right?
Speaker A:That's the real solution.
Speaker B:I agree.
Speaker B:I agree.
Speaker B:And I wish that.
Speaker B:I mean, after having lived in the bay area for 20 years, I wish that.
Speaker B:That they would be more open to that.
Speaker B:But, you know, one of the things I try to explain to people is as.
Speaker B:As bad as you think San Francisco is.
Speaker B:It's worse.
Speaker B:It's far, far worse because they reject openly any sort of transcendent moral standard, and their city shows it.
Speaker B:It's.
Speaker B:It is so bad.
Speaker B: when I lived there, I left in: Speaker B:Even when I lived there, there were still zombies walking around the street, screaming at the sky, even in the nice parts of town.
Speaker B: to visit and was November of: Speaker B:And like, I don't understand, and perhaps I never will, how people continue living in an environment like that.
Speaker B:They would.
Speaker B:They would rather choose to live in filth and squalor and shoplifting and closed stores than admit like, hey, maybe we've got this wrong.
Speaker B:It's.
Speaker B:It's baffling to me.
Speaker B:And of course, San Francisco's not the only city that's that way.
Speaker B:Berkeley is worse.
Speaker B:Los Angeles, many, you know, New York, all, probably all the major American cities are afflicted with this idea, this Tower of Babel kind of idea.
Speaker B:You know, we will build a tower that reaches up to God.
Speaker B:Nothing will be denied of us.
Speaker B:Like, well, it's not exactly how it works, and it doesn't work.
Speaker B:And those, you know, those.
Speaker B:Those projects get smashed.
Speaker B:And, you know, whether they get smashed from.
Speaker B:From the sky or whether they crumble under their own weight, it's still what happens.
Speaker B:And I think the ideas that we're talking about could actually present that.
Speaker B:But again, just to sort of tie it all together in a way, how we go about talking about these ideas with the people who need to hear them matters a whole lot.
Speaker B:Because if we truly do want to see this change, this change in the shift towards righteousness, how we go about the project of evangelism, man, that matters.
Speaker B:Man that matters.
Speaker B:So it's not done in a contentious, combative way to people who are ultimately suffering because of their own wrong beliefs.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:I'm with you, Will.
Speaker A:I think you just said, everything is on my.
Speaker A:You said it so well, buddy.
Speaker A:And you know, you have so many people who are just like, that's.
Speaker A:It's pretty wild, man.
Speaker A:It's wild.
Speaker A:Yeah, it is wild.
Speaker B:Well, this has been a fantastic conversation, as usual.
Speaker B:I love, I love chatting with you about all this stuff, and I want to make sure to talk real quick about the.
Speaker B:What you offer for content creators, your various programs, because as I am not at all shy of saying, you know, you taught me everything that I know about Twitter.
Speaker B:It was.
Speaker B:It was as a result of Create publish, profit.
Speaker B:That cohort.
Speaker B:30 days.
Speaker B:I think it was 20, 23, something like that.
Speaker B:That was really.
Speaker B:It was a massively eye opening.
Speaker A:How many, how many followers did you have when you started in there?
Speaker B:Oh, I.
Speaker B:I maybe had three or five thousand at the most.
Speaker A:How many do you have right now?
Speaker A:Right now?
Speaker B:I have.
Speaker B:I.
Speaker B:I have 30.
Speaker B:30,000.
Speaker B:30,000 and 300.
Speaker A:400.
Speaker A:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker A:So I do want to say this.
Speaker A:We have a community called Masterclass Master, which is right here.
Speaker A:Oh, it's like, yeah, check it.
Speaker A:I'm where.
Speaker A:I probably should have had that.
Speaker A:I know Evan Amada was talking about that.
Speaker A:My Tim Pool beanie.
Speaker A:I'm doing it for a reason.
Speaker A:I probably didn't get that Right there.
Speaker A:But we are doing right now it's the best place to be if you have any inkling.
Speaker A:I want to grow on social media.
Speaker A:I want to learn how to grow on X the right way.
Speaker A:I want to learn how to create content not with fake engagement or fake followers.
Speaker A:I want to meet the right people.
Speaker A:I want to meet people who are building on social Media.
Speaker A:Join the masterclass Community Masterclass247.com While we're actually doing this right now I'm running free trials so you can actually check it out risk free.
Speaker A:Just go.
Speaker A:You can click on my.
Speaker A:If you go to my page on X, just click on the bio or masterclass247.com and you can hop in and join this.
Speaker A:I'll personally greet you.
Speaker A:There's thousands of hours of resources inside of there that will show you how to put together a profile, how to create content, how to tell your story, how to write content that does go viral and then some ideas on like how to actually publish content that gets people to like understand your idea.
Speaker A:We help you become a better writer and a clearer thinker really on social media.
Speaker A:And it's really all of the things that we do are in that community.
Speaker A:And I've got some really big guests coming in.
Speaker A:Like I haven't even made announcements to our community but we do calls with some of the biggest influencers online and they come in and teach us inside of closed webinars that we have on there and we do calls and we all help each other out.
Speaker A:So that's masterclass247.com I just wanted to plug that at the end.
Speaker A:End.
Speaker A:And it's free.
Speaker A:Check it out.
Speaker A:Just try it out.
Speaker A:You can head there.
Speaker A:I think until February 17th.
Speaker A:I'm running these free trials and then they're closed for a long time.
Speaker A:So I wanted to give that because we're celebrating Will, our four year anniversary running this community which is amazing.
Speaker A:Incredible, man.
Speaker A:It's never going away either.
Speaker A:It is as long as I'm alive.
Speaker A:Masterclass Masterclass247.com will be around because social media is the digital battlefront for our ideas and for Christianity and for ourselves and for our businesses and for you to network and for you to change your life.
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker B:And I wholly endorse everything that you produce.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker B:I create published profit Masterclass.
Speaker B:In fact, for those of you who are watching on YouTube you can find links to what Dino does in the, in the description of this live stream because it's, it's very positive.
Speaker B:That's the thing that I like a lot about it, not only is it effective, not only is it.
Speaker B:Is it very much like a very.
Speaker B:A very healthy and thriving community full of enthusiastic creators, but it's very positive and it works hard to bring out the best in people.
Speaker B:And I'll never forget the first calls that.
Speaker B:That I jumped on with you guys when I joined the cpp.
Speaker B:It was.
Speaker B:It was the encouragement to succeed and the guidance to do things the right way and to really build and grow on these platforms was like.
Speaker B:It made a very powerful impression on me.
Speaker B:And so now here we are a couple years later, and it changed my entire approach to social media.
Speaker B:And I'm always enthusiastic to endorse the programs that you put out there because they are designed to really help people succeed in the best way.
Speaker A:Absolutely.
Speaker A:It's there to help them get those results that they want.
Speaker A:And you know what?
Speaker A:You're one of the testaments to it.
Speaker A:And I think you're just getting started, Will.
Speaker A:I think you're just getting started.
Speaker A:In three years, you're going to need it.
Speaker A:We're going to have even a.
Speaker A:You're going to have even a bigger audience because you're going to be.
Speaker A:And the right kinds of people.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:The right kinds of people.
Speaker A:You're going to continue to grow your following and you're going to continue to help people point them to the Bible, point them back in the church, and to do the right things in life.
Speaker A:It's really important the way that we present ourselves on social media.
Speaker A:It has a lasting impact to other people.
Speaker A:All right, so, hey, man, thanks for having me on.
Speaker A:I really appreciate it, brother.
Speaker B:Very grateful and blessed to be in this fight with you, brother.
Speaker B:Thanks so much for being on.
Speaker A:Thank you, brother.
Speaker A:God bless.
